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Subject: Eminent Domain is Kickstarter gone mad rss

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Rogue Marechal
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let me explain (then you can argue and disagree all you like). Harsh words ahead however, so read on at your own risk, you may find you are looking into a mirror and not like what you see - you've been warned...

Anyway, I haven't quite followed the KS for the base game or the expansion. In fact I believe I became aware of the game just after the Escalation KS, while researching Race for the Galaxy.

What struck me when opening the box and playing the game was how pointless and fiddly the fighter miniatures were in gameplay. They were quickly replaced with generic tokens I had lying around.

... my guess is that the inclusion of miniatures was at the (vocal) backers requests? And no one at TMG thought that maybe just maybe including some cardboard chits as an alternative would be a good idea (cause you know I'm pretty sure the game was tested with basic components and no one thought it lacked anything for it)?

Anyway, to make matters worst, I now see that the expansion has rules to add to the fiddliness, requiring to exchange these components from hell with the bank to convert regular fighters into Destroyers (and latter Battleships)? And no one at TMG thought it would be a good idea to include tokens printed with a [F] on one side and a [D] on the other with the expansion?

And to add insult to injury, TMG set the stretch goals to be sure the 3-fighters tokens described as 'helping with fighters management' i.e an identified area of improvement to game play was less likely to be funded (and it wasn't) than gold-stamped signatures on the box?

Really??? is this what Kickstarter is about, makes games with as little consideration to the gaming experience and listening to the geeks who want mooooware or wet their pants looking at their 'limited edition' copy?

Anyway, I want to thank all involved in these decisions, I very much doubt I will pick the expansion when it is released, leaving my gaming budget intact for picking up a game from a publisher who actually put some thoughts into their products.

... but please, TMG, do yourself a favour and address this issue with your next expansion. I'm sure you can find some spare change in your pocket for this purpose, if you really want to...

(and now let the slaughter fest begin)
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Cameron McKenzie
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There's nothing wrong with the fighters. If you don't like them, that's just personal preference and it should not be difficult to come up with your own replacement...

It seems odd to complain about TMG including fighter figures that most of the backers actually wanted. How dare they their customers something that they want! They ought to know better!
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James W
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What did you think of the game? Did you like it?
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Gar Per
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Wow. First world problems. You are upset that fighters were included in the base game? Go in the yard and pick up some rocks if you hate them so much. They just added a little feel to the game.

How many games come with alternate, lower quality components just in case? There are probably examples, but I'd say at least 99.9% of games don't.

Your only possibly legitimate complaint is that the 3-fighter tokens were too high of a stretch goal. But your understanding of how stretch goals work is flawed. When a stretch goal is reached, that represents the company saying "since we are now printing this many copies, our cost per copy goes down, so now we can afford to include X". It has nothing to do with what is most important. If they thought it was important to gameplay, they included it. If they thought it was just nice to have, they didn't.
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William Bowers
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This is your example of kickstarter gone mad?
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Chad Rathsack
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The miniatures were different sizes to save money. Instead of having custom ships made they bought an already created mold (same ones from Eclipse) to get their fighters. Getting an artist to sculpt a ship and then paying for the mold to be made is very expensive.

And why would a company making its first game waste money on multiple components that represent the same thing? That's just plain stupid.
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Rogue Marechal
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faustulus wrote:
This is your example of kickstarter gone mad?

Very good point!
 
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Aditya C
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DrFace wrote:
The miniatures were different sizes to save money. Instead of having custom ships made they bought an already created mold (same ones from Eclipse) to get their fighters. Getting an artist to sculpt a ship and then paying for the mold to be made is very expensive.

And why would a company making its first game waste money on multiple components that represent the same thing? That's just plain stupid.


They have separate functions in the expansion.

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brian
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It seems you don't have your facts straight. You don't understand the reason for the different ships (it was a cost saving move since they existed for another game) and you assume incorrectly on the reasoning: it was not backers clamoring for this.

If anything, part of the expansion was inspired by the fact that different ships manifested themselves into the game. But I don't see that as madness, Kickstarter or otherwise.
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Cameron McKenzie
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DrFace wrote:
The miniatures were different sizes to save money. Instead of having custom ships made they bought an already created mold (same ones from Eclipse) to get their fighters. Getting an artist to sculpt a ship and then paying for the mold to be made is very expensive.


Galactic Emperor has the same figures too... That mold gets a lot of re-use!
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Contig
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You get some annoyed replies, not because zealots want to slaughter you, but because you're going into a whole tirade about something that's not even true. You should get your facts straight before you start complaining.
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Jeffrey Bourbeau
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RogueM wrote:

Anyway, I haven't quite followed the KS for the base game or the expansion.

(and now let the slaughter fest begin)


So you have no educated opinion and are whining about tokens? Wtf?
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Rogue Marechal
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Sure, I have an opinion, mostly about the GenCon debacle, but I claim no right to bring that one back in the spotlight, simply because I was not affected by TMG's poor form of customer relation.

... and, as per opening post, I have an opinion regarding something I AM affected by, the fighters. If my opinion wasn't clear: they suck ;-)
 
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Aditya C
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RogueM wrote:
faustulus wrote:
This is your example of kickstarter gone mad?

Very good point!


You have quite the friendly attitude.
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Mathue Faulkner
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RogueM wrote:
Sure, I have an opinion, mostly about the GenCon debacle, but I claim no right to bring that one back in the spotlight, simply because I was not affected by TMG's poor form of customer relation.

... and, as per opening post, I have an opinion regarding something I AM affected by, the fighters. If my opinion wasn't clear: they suck ;-)

Just to reiterate though, the decision on the fighter ships had absolutely nothing to do with Kickstarter. Even if this was released normally, it would've included the fighter ships.
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Chris Sessoms
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Scott Everts
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David Hoffman
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This thread is Kickstarter criticism gone mad.
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Eric S.
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ScottE wrote:


You read it. You can't unread it.
 
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Sean Boyll
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In confused. You are upset because the tokens provided are not identical? So if all the fleet counters were from the same mold you would not be having this rant?

The design of the expansion was influenced by the three different ships that came with the base game and people were asking for them to have a meaning. ( see other posts for details)This is similar to why the King of Tokyo: Power Up is what it is.
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Kenny VenOsdel
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DrFace wrote:

And why would a company making its first game waste money on multiple components that represent the same thing? That's just plain stupid.


Eminent Domain was not Tasty Minstrel's first game but this is otherwise true. I can only think of one game I have that comes with multiple components to represent the same thing (Le Havre: The Inland Port) and I thought that was stupid and a waste of my money.

Also, small tokens are much more difficult to handle than these fighters so I don't really understand why you think the fighters are fiddly. I'd also like to know why you think it becomes too fiddly to upgrade the ships. That's entirely as fiddly as any other game with resource conversion present.

I also agree with the other posts that your complaint has nothing to do with Kickstarter at all.
 
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Chad Rathsack
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kvenosdel wrote:
DrFace wrote:

And why would a company making its first game waste money on multiple components that represent the same thing? That's just plain stupid.


Eminent Domain was not Tasty Minstrel's first game but this is otherwise true. I can only think of one game I have that comes with multiple components to represent the same thing (Le Havre: The Inland Port) and I thought that was stupid and a waste of my money.


Ah, I see you are correct sir! I neglected Homesteaders and Terra Prime (games I've not played so easily forgotten).
 
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Mathue Faulkner
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DrFace wrote:
kvenosdel wrote:
DrFace wrote:

And why would a company making its first game waste money on multiple components that represent the same thing? That's just plain stupid.


Eminent Domain was not Tasty Minstrel's first game but this is otherwise true. I can only think of one game I have that comes with multiple components to represent the same thing (Le Havre: The Inland Port) and I thought that was stupid and a waste of my money.


Ah, I see you are correct sir! I neglected Homesteaders and Terra Prime (games I've not played so easily forgotten).

Homesteaders is still TMG's best game to date imo, and some may call me a bit of a TMG fanboy...
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Seth Jaffee
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kvenosdel wrote:
DrFace wrote:

And why would a company making its first game waste money on multiple components that represent the same thing? That's just plain stupid.


Eminent Domain was not Tasty Minstrel's first game but this is otherwise true. I can only think of one game I have that comes with multiple components to represent the same thing (Le Havre: The Inland Port) and I thought that was stupid and a waste of my money.

What he said. I don't think the comment is limited to first time publishers - why would ANY publisher supply 2 different components to do the same thing? And where do you draw the line? Should every game come with 2 whole sets of components, 1 wooden and 1 molded plastic, just in case some players prefer one set while other players prefer the other?

I've posted several times how it came to pass that there are 3 different sizes of ships in Eminent Domain, and why the rules say they just count as 1 ship each (as opposed to 1, 3, and 5 for example - and you can happily use them that way if you like).

I am very pleased with the way Escalation has come together, utilizing the fact that there are 3 different ship models, and I think in a couple of months when players get ahold of the expansion they will enjoy all the new dynamics that come from that.

Plus, now when upgrading 2 Destroyers, you can put on your horrendous Russian accent and say "Battlecruiser Operational"
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Aaron Morgan
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RogueM wrote:
And no one at TMG thought it would be a good idea to include tokens printed with a [F] on one side and a [D] on the other with the expansion?


Why should they have? The miniatures for both ship types are already in the base game box.
 
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