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Subject: Pacific War Recommendation rss

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Adam Pfaff
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I am interested in a larger game on the whole Pacific Theater. I want one with detailed naval rules, and care less about land combat. Two games I am interested in are USN Deluxe and Advanced Pacific Theater of Operations, which of these is better, or should I get a different game altogether?
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Judd Vance
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From what I hear, if you are ready for a beast of a campaign, the game that all others are measured against (at least at that level of granularity) is the out of print classic Pacific War: The Struggle Against Japan 1941-1945.

Fortunately for you, there is a copy on an auction that ends Friday and it's going for $41.

http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/159514/item/2722902#item27...

I bid on it, but then decided to stop because the game would be too much game for me.
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J.L. Robert
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The biggest beast of the lot is War in the Pacific (second edition). Not only is it enormous, there's even a War in the Pacific Extension Kit which adds even more volume to it.
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Mark Humphries
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Across the Pacific hits the sweet spot for me
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Dougie LB
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airjudden wrote:
From what I hear, if you are ready for a beast of a campaign, the game that all others are measured against (at least at that level of granularity) is the out of print classic Pacific War: The Struggle Against Japan 1941-1945.


Judd is correct, it is a beast and it has plenty of smaller scenarios to help you learn the systems before tackling the full campaign.
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Darrell Hanning
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Pacific War is still, in my estimation, Mark Herman's magnum opus.

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Paul Spak
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I haven't played any of the other games mentioned in this thread. But I'll throw in another vote for Pacific War, and Doug is correct - the learning curve is not that steep, the scenarios make it quite playable. It covers everything.
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Judd Vance
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J.L.Robert wrote:
The biggest beast of the lot is War in the Pacific (second edition). Not only is it enormous, there's even a War in the Pacific Extension Kit which adds even more volume to it.


I saw a copy of that game at a FLGS.

I have my copy of Tide of Iron's coffin box loaded up with the base game and two expansions. And I thing think WitP STILL weighed more. I actually grunted when I picked it up because I didn't expect it to be that packed.
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Sean McCormick
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airjudden wrote:
J.L.Robert wrote:
The biggest beast of the lot is War in the Pacific (second edition). Not only is it enormous, there's even a War in the Pacific Extension Kit which adds even more volume to it.


I saw a copy of that game at a FLGS.

I have my copy of Tide of Iron's coffin box loaded up with the base game and two expansions. And I thing WitP STILL weighed more. I actually grunted when I picked it up because I didn't expect it to be that packed.


Supposed to be a terrible design, though. Basically unplayable.
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Matt Irsik
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I wrote a review for USN Deluxe that you can find here on BGG and while I think it does a good job of simulating the Pacific War, it's not for everyone. Definitely an old school type game with a lot, and I mean a lot of turns along with a clockwork sequence of play. I own several Pacific War games and it's the only one I have that shows the grinding nature of the campaign. Long treks across a vast ocean, picking off a few air points here and there, building airbases, etc., where you can see the Japanese slowly getting ground down and overwhelmed(they still have a better than 50/50 chance to win the game). However, this may take you three months of game play!
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Robb Minneman
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I'll put in my vote for Asia Engulfed. The block system provides for some very nice fog of war, and the naval interception system is terrific. You never know quite what the other guy has in mind when he's making a naval move, and whether this one is a feint to ignore or a main attack to risk it all on.
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Tom Willcockson
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DarrellKH wrote:
Pacific War is still, in my estimation, Mark Herman's magnum opus.


This one would be your best bet I think. Get a used copy of the VG Pacific War and then hopefully sometime in the next couple of years Herman and MMP will put out a new version of it. My fantasy would be for him to go on to design an ETO game to go with it.
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Kent Reuber
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I'd tend to go for something like the Pacific Victory block game.
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Mike Hoyt

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Pacific War is going to be re-printed...some day. You can read all about it on CSW and Mark is good about explaining the changes he is making.
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Adam Pfaff
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airjudden wrote:
From what I hear, if you are ready for a beast of a campaign, the game that all others are measured against (at least at that level of granularity) is the out of print classic Pacific War: The Struggle Against Japan 1941-1945.

Fortunately for you, there is a copy on an auction that ends Friday and it's going for $41.

http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/159514/item/2722902#item27...

I bid on it, but then decided to stop because the game would be too much game for me.

Thanks for the link, I think I will get Pacific War, War in the Pacific is too much game for me.
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Wolfgang Kunz
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Mark_WH wrote:
Across the Pacific hits the sweet spot for me


Another vote for this one. From a small company but worth it.
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Wolfgang Kunz
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airjudden wrote:
...stop because the game would be too much game for me.


No, it isn't. Not for you - trust me in this.
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Judd Vance
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aapkw9 wrote:
airjudden wrote:
From what I hear, if you are ready for a beast of a campaign, the game that all others are measured against (at least at that level of granularity) is the out of print classic Pacific War: The Struggle Against Japan 1941-1945.

Fortunately for you, there is a copy on an auction that ends Friday and it's going for $41.

http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/159514/item/2722902#item27...

I bid on it, but then decided to stop because the game would be too much game for me.

Thanks for the link, I think I will get Pacific War, War in the Pacific is too much game for me.


If you lose the auction, there are a couple on the marketplace going for $50 & $60, respectively. That surprises me. I always thought that this game goes for about $90.

Good luck!
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Enrico Viglino
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I got two copies for under $40 each, IIRC. One was pristine, the other
has problems (photocopied rules, played, some counters cat-chewed).

The lousy copy came from CSW Marketplace, without sufficient warning.
So watch it there - there aren't the same protections.
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Steven Mitchell
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airjudden wrote:
From what I hear, if you are ready for a beast of a campaign, the game that all others are measured against (at least at that level of granularity) is the out of print classic Pacific War: The Struggle Against Japan 1941-1945.


Pacific War is definitely a fantastic game, but it bears mentioning that it was not designed with the purpose of simulating the entire war. Its focus is on operations and campaigns. The game does include a scenario covering the entire war, but it's not the focus of the game. It was really only included because Mark and VG thought (probably correctly) that it wouldn't sell as well if it didn't have the whole enchilada.

If you're looking for a game that captures the way campaigns in the Pacific were run, Pacific War is certainly your best bet. But I would not make it my go-to for playing it out start to finish. It works, but the engine just isn't built for that purpose.

As someone with extensive interest in PTO games, I own and have played most of the options available (Pacific Fleet is the one major entry that I've yet to play). My verdict is that there still isn't a game that gets it entirely right. Adam's initial options — USN Deluxe and APTO — are both good, though. Both are old-school designs with loads of new chrome added on top.

Across the Pacific is another good option, but I'm personally not a fan of the more design-for-effect/gamey mechanics.

To be honest, the game that I'm mostly likely to pull out if I just want to play around in the Pacific for a little bit is A World at War. The Third Reich system is one of the first wargame rulesets that I learned, so it's one that is second-nature to me in a lot of ways. And I enjoy most of the fiddly details that have been added over the years. I'm not saying it's the most accurate simulation, but it's the one that I enjoy the most and feel most at home with.
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Stephen Harper
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TomW731 wrote:
DarrellKH wrote:
Pacific War is still, in my estimation, Mark Herman's magnum opus.


This one would be your best bet I think. Get a used copy of the VG Pacific War and then hopefully sometime in the next couple of years Herman and MMP will put out a new version of it. My fantasy would be for him to go on to design an ETO game to go with it.


I throw in another vote for Pacific War. Sounds just what you need, based upon your stated requirements.
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Bill Lawson
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Another vote here for Pacific War: The Struggle Against Japan 1941-1945 . A simply outstanding game. You can play this on the level of engagements (Savo Island), Battles (Midway), Campaigns (Guadalcanal), or the entire War. And yes the whole Campaign does work just fine (although it takes a long, long, time). I played the whole war out twice back in the 80's when this first came out and its one of the most memorable (in a good way!) experiences I've had in Wargaming. I had an online discussion with Mark Herman here on BGG about it and he said he'd played out the Campaign 3 times (I believe).
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Judd Vance
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DarrellKH wrote:
Pacific War is still, in my estimation, Mark Herman's magnum opus.



I have got to play this. (Bill, why don't you teach me?)

I couldn't think Mark Herman could get any more Magnus Opusy than We the People. Then I played Washington's War and saw how perfection could be improved.

Then I played Empire of the Sun, and even though Washington's War is still my favorite game, I think EotS his Magnum Opus.

I played France 1944 afterward, and it's not his Magnum Opus, but it may very well be the most awesome simple hex-and-counter game I've come across. And For the People rocks.

I think he's playing with his. He keeps trumping himself just to show us that he can. ninja
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Jeremy Fridy
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Omega Games Carrier War: The War in the Pacific 1941-1945 puts a lot of effort into the limited intelligence of the conflict...
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Steven Mitchell
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airjudden wrote:
Then I played Empire of the Sun, and even though Washington's War is still my favorite game, I think EotS his Magnum Opus.


Ha! I don't know how I could have forgotten Empire of the Sun! It's not my go-to game for PTO, but it's probably one of the tightest games, from a design perspective.

I actually think that my prior experience with Pacific War helped me understand a lot of what was going on in EotS, because of that operational focus in each. In Pacific War, the operation is the full scenario; in EotS, it's each card play (not exactly, but more or less). And maybe that's a large part of the reason why EotS was something I was able to pick up so naturally; and why I don't quite understand why so many others have difficulty grokking it.

Or maybe it's because I'm not a heavy CDG player, and so the tropes of CDGs which EotS eschews didn't interfere with my learning the game. As I've said before, I don't think EotS is a difficult ruleset in the least. It's different, though. And perhaps that difference is even more stark for those with heavy exposure to 'normal' CDGs, à la We the People or Paths of Glory.

??
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