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Kings of Air and Steam» Forums » General

Subject: HORRIBLE EXPERIENCE WITH THIS GAME rss

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Matthew Murbach
United States
Little Rock
Arkansas
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I have not posted anything like this on bgg before. This game was ruined for me after the first move of the game. I had the misfortune of starting near the end of the turn order. Someone set up their blimp position and depot like they were going to pursue one profitable resource, then when their move was revealed, moved onto the one I was going after. This is probably the most devastating thing I have ever seen happen to someone on the first turn of any game. Because you have only 5 turns and your 4 orders are preset for the turn, I had to take an inefficient route to get another good and put down a depot that was not close to any other good because I could not turn my airship enough, and my game was irrevocably harmed. I do not think any game should exist where the consequences of going toward the end of the turn are so severe. It is hardly worth playing a game if you are permanently behind, barring stupid opponent play, just because you start at the end of the turn order. I hated my experience with this game, even more because I am having to move to another state so I don't perish due to lack of work and being such a devalued person, and this might be my last experience with this gaming group. I give this game one star and suggest it be avoided.
 
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Bartosz Popow
Poland
Gdynia
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Calm down, make a lower case thread subject and get over it.
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Seth Jaffee
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Tucson
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Just to make sure, was your opponent closer to the factory you were after than you were? Because turn order is based on the movement card you play (only tiebreakers are based on seat order), and generally speaking short moves are earlier in turn order than long moves.

I'm sorry you felt so helpless in your game of Kings of Air and Steam.
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Chris Smith
United Kingdom
Solihull
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If you'd like to play multiplayer solitaire instead then just play with a bigger board layout so everyone has plenty of space, kinda boring but...yeah.

I find one of the most fun aspects of this game trying to look out for clashes and ensure that I either have contingency plans or that I get there first. One tactic if you're getting screwed on order is to rush upgrade your airship a little and use diamonds to step in ahead of people.

Getting train depots built early can be another backup, as other players will have to pay you for their use or waste all their money having competing links on the same line.

Also consider things like using a 3 instead of a 2 for a short distance if you're unsure (As you can wide turn it). That gives you a bit more space for backup moves.

In short, there is more to the game than trying to ignore everyone while you do pickup and deliver, so explore that or as I said...bigger board where there's less competition.
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Mark O'Reilly
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Chester
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It's a game dude.
Give it another go, I bet you won't make the same mistake twice.
If you absolutely must be first to move and get your resource, use a card with a high number (even if it means going for a resource that isn't closest to you).
Also in the game that put you off so badly, you could of evened out the INJUSTICE done to you in further rounds, wreaking your revenge on the perpetrator!.
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Aaron Bohm
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Appleton
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Yep, this is the single most common thing in a first game and typically happens 4-5 players. Exactly as you said it, it disrupts all your moves for the first round, essentially making you reroute while hopefully you make use of your time with some key upgrades.

There are reasons this does not happen the more experienced you get with the game. For one, as mentioned above, you'll find you can almost see in your mind what card everyone is going to play (at least the first few cards). You can then predict a bit whether you'll be able to get their first or whether you should make plans.

Another is that you have first pick on the board. Never, ever limit yourself to only one good in range of your first depot, find a space that has 2 or 3 decent options and this way you have options if the first is taken. I know it doesn't seem like it, but first pick is never, ever a disadvantage and even if people place around you (they shouldn't), your depot being in the best place should give you a major advantage.

I can already hear what you are thinking, "but all the other ones weren't as close to the city that needed that good!" True, but Kings of Air and Steam is a game of flexibility. Utilizing ship movement and trains to their most effectiveness and making sure you have the depot routes you need is what makes this game great. It is not great if everyone farms their corner of the map that you'll find happens in a 3 player game (though preferable to people who don't like interaction). IE the game is better with it's interactions and "inefficiencies" like having to upgrade and move/ship long distances. It gets very boring when all you do is ship and buy depots (since, in a farming game, no other upgrades are needed).

The last point is on him. For the person who beat you out on the good, he has to learn this isn't a good option for him either. Ideally, you want to find places where the goods are left alone. If two people are vying for the same goods, that means there are goods somewhere people aren't competing over and the person who is capitalizing on these areas will beat you both.

Our last game this exact thing happened and the person whose goods were stolen wasted not only 1 but almost 2 rounds before shipping. He hung in there though and ended up coming in second, beating the guy stealing from him. So the other thing about the game is that your never really out of the race either.
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Patrick R
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mmurbach wrote:
Someone set up their blimp position and depot like they were going to pursue one profitable resource, then when their move was revealed, moved onto the one I was going after.

It sounds like your headaches were caused more by your assumption that the other player wouldn't go after the same resource as you, moreso than the turn order. As someone else already pointed out, the player with the lower distance to travel usually gets to go first (turn order is more-or-less determined by the cards you play), so this type of conflict is predictable. Having to quickly re-plan is a big part of the game (and part of the fun).
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Neil Christiansen
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Mount Pleasant
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There are a lot of games where I have hosed myself early (setup or turn 1) because I did not understand the strategy or tactics after a single reading of the rules.

First games are ALWAYS learning games and should be taken as such.
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Alexis Perez
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I've had games like this happen and had to adjust on the fly. As you start the game with $12 I tend to keep a backup plan in play in order to maximize my points.

First, if you can't get goods on turn one don't worry about it. Build a depot. If a player takes goods you want build depots around their network connection. Make their subsequent depots more expensive or force them to build in a direction that won't help them. New depots are only $4. Reroute for some other goods.

Second, if you can't get goods and you don't want to build depots then upgrade your airship. Being able to pick up 3 goods and play a diamond card should be a first round action.

Third, if you can't get goods and you don't want to build depots or upgrade your airship then route adjustment. If your trying to get somewhere that extra space of movement might make some good pickups possible. Take any goods you can get. Unless you placed yourself on the edge of the board you should have some choices on where to go.

Initial placements I tend to put my air ship closer to the middle of the board to allow for route adjustment. If you know that you are last in tie breaking for turn order take that into account for your movement plans.

I am sorry you had a bad experience. The nice thing about games though is you never have to play this again if you choose. I have had rough starts with this game and come back to win. I've had rough starts and never recovered. But the game is a competitive one and goods will be in short supply. I've been screwed over before in this game by some guy zipping in and swiping the last cube I wanted or fulfilling a city demand before I could. I still really enjoy this game and will continue to play it. I'm sure you'll be able to find someone to take your copy off your hands.

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Scott Almes
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I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but I do just want to clarify one thing. You mentioned trouble turning your ship to recover. You are able to turn which direction your ship is moving at the beginning of each movement. This is a commonly missed rule, and I just to make sure you had the rule correct.

I hope you give it a second chance. I'm sorry you felt the experience was a bad one.
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Mathue Faulkner
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scottbalmes wrote:
I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but I do just want to clarify one thing. You mentioned trouble turning your ship to recover. You are able to turn which direction your ship is moving at the beginning of each movement. This is a commonly missed rule, and I just to make sure you had the rule correct.

I hope you give it a second chance. I'm sorry you felt the experience was a bad one.


I'm also curious if he played the turn order correctly. If they ignored the movement priorities and just rotated around the table then that could also explain his difficulties.

Using the correct rules and a little forethought, players shouldn't ever get completely screwed. Players may get their plans ruined, but there is always a Plan B if you're playing smart.
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Klure Junior
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Re: lots of caps in my thread name..... ack!
Like a few others have stated, sounds like user error more than anything unfair happening.

Either Turn order was done incorrectly, or the user placed his starting pieces right next to another player (original depots CANNOT occupy the same section of track) or the player just had very little forethought that the nearest player to him might go after the same resource and did not plan accordingly.

I have played a few times and never had the game "ruined" on the first turn, Yes I have lost out on getting a resource...

Also try the Cut throat version, you might really hate that... haha
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Bill Grant
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Agree with most of the other commentors that it seems like either a rule mistake or a learning experience on how to better avoid the situation in a future game.

But what I really came to say is the thread subject is quite brutal. A fairer subject might be "Game seemed to be decided on turn one, any advice?". I'm not the sensitive type but this seems a bit fairer to Scott/Seth/co. who seem to genuinely want to provide guidance on how it might have been avoided.
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Yours Truly,
United States
Raleigh
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There must have been a moment at the beginning, where we could have said no. Somehow we missed it. Well, we'll know better next time.
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Billgrant wrote:
Agree with most of the other commentors that it seems like either a rule mistake or a learning experience on how to better avoid the situation in a future game.

But what I really came to say is the thread subject is quite brutal. A fairer subject might be "Game seemed to be decided on turn one, any advice?". I'm not the sensitive type but this seems a bit fairer to Scott/Seth/co. who seem to genuinely want to provide guidance on how it might have been avoided.


Plus even the Navy has now dropped all-caps communiques

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/06/12/navy-to-drop-all-ca...
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Yours Truly,
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Raleigh
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There must have been a moment at the beginning, where we could have said no. Somehow we missed it. Well, we'll know better next time.
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But seriously, I can sympathize with having a frustrating first-play experience. Some games have a learning curve though, and aren't first-time-player friendly, and as such don't make good "gateway games" etc.

I also wonder if your unemployment issues put you in a bad frame of mind in the first place.

Best of luck with the move and I hope you are able to find a job soon!
 
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Got two game tables and a microphone
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Scott: will you be at WBC this year? Just curious.

One thing I have to compliment you on is your quick response to a negative comment, and your willingness to clarify rules on the board. Not every designer does this.
 
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David G. Cox Esq.
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Lighthouse Beach
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This is one of the saddest tales I woe that I have heard this year.
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