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Subject: New preview is up on Fantasy Flight's website rss

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Sam Li
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http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4255
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Konstantinos Thoukydidis
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Thomas Haas is just 1 influence and does not require a click to use OMG OMG OMG! Jinteki is so happy right now!

Also Same Old Thing is going to be just disgusting in Criminals. 6 Account Siphons or 6 Inside Jobs as required. Ugh...

EDIT: Also, quite interesting on the source, a neutral card with an influence cost.
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Brent Bailey
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Am I missing something on Thomas Haas? It costs you a click and a credit to advance him. When you use him, you get your credit and an additional back. Why didn't you just use the click for a credit in the first place? Its certainly not an eco gainer. All it does is protect somewhat from Vamp and Account Siphon at the cost of a ton of clicks. I'm not really impressed. Certainly not the Account Siphon answer I was hoping for.

I guess it can kind of make sense with NBN never advance type strategies with Matrix Analyzer in front of it. Free credit and trash right before they access it to get it. But I wouldn't waste the influence for that meager effect.
 
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Mychal
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gokubb wrote:
Am I missing something on Thomas Haas? It costs you a click and a credit to advance him. When you use him, you get your credit and an additional back. Why didn't you just use the click for a credit in the first place? Its certainly not an eco gainer. All it does is protect somewhat from Vamp and Account Siphon at the cost of a ton of clicks. I'm not really impressed. Certainly not the Account Siphon answer I was hoping for.

That's because it's not really meant to be an Account Siphon answer, that's just an edge benefit sometimes. It's a distraction card, to make the runner waste credits trying to get into your server for what they think is an agenda, but then you trash him at the last moment for the credits. Now you've just wasted the runner's click, and created a huge swing in economy if they spent a reasonable amount trying to get in.
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Paul DeStefano
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gokubb wrote:
Am I missing something on Thomas Haas? It costs you a click and a credit to advance him. When you use him, you get your credit and an additional back. Why didn't you just use the click for a credit in the first place? Its certainly not an eco gainer. All it does is protect somewhat from Vamp and Account Siphon at the cost of a ton of clicks. I'm not really impressed. Certainly not the Account Siphon answer I was hoping for.

1 turn: 3 clicks, play him, add 2 tokens.

next turn: 3 clicks, add 2 tokens, get back 8.

Obviously, over more turns, he amortizes his play cost.

Also, they're advancement tokens, not creds. There's other ways to get advancement tokens...
 
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Brent Bailey
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Its only an economy provider if you got the advancement tokens without spending the credit yourself. Otherwise you're always his 1 cost, 1 intall click behind.

I get putting him out as bait, but I'd rather use most options that are already there. Bait works best in my opinion in NBN never advance, which a card that requires advancement doesn't work with. In Jintecki, I just doubt I'd find the space. I'd much rather run Junebug or Ronin if I'm wasting clicks to fake advance something.
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Sam Li
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Skylar114 wrote:

That's because it's not really meant to be an Account Siphon answer, that's just an edge benefit sometimes. It's a distraction card, to make the runner waste credits trying to get into your server for what they think is an agenda, but then you trash him at the last moment for the credits. Now you've just wasted the runner's click, and created a huge swing in economy if they spent a reasonable amount trying to get in.


Oh wow, I didn't pick up on the fact that you could rez and spend him right before the runner accesses that server. He suddenly got much better.
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Bryan Blumklotz
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gokubb wrote:
Am I missing something on Thomas Haas? It costs you a click and a credit to advance him. When you use him, you get your credit and an additional back. Why didn't you just use the click for a credit in the first place? Its certainly not an eco gainer. All it does is protect somewhat from Vamp and Account Siphon at the cost of a ton of clicks. I'm not really impressed. Certainly not the Account Siphon answer I was hoping for.

I guess it can kind of make sense with NBN never advance type strategies with Matrix Analyzer in front of it. Free credit and trash right before they access it to get it. But I wouldn't waste the influence for that meager effect.


You are leaving out a few things in your analysis. It's another advancable card which can be used to draw the runner into making a run on a server, draining them of valuable credits and clicks.

In Jinteki (or any other corp that has advancable traps) now you have to make a decision on whether a card is an agenda, trap or econ engine. Pair it up with Simone Diego or Shipment from Kaguya and it can be a nice bit of change waiting for you.

Is it earth shatteringly good, no. But it can serve a purpose in some decks.

Frankly, I am much more interested in Minelayer and Gila Hands Arcology for Jinteki.

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Damian Tyree
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He's also unexpected credits.

You have 1-3 creds and the runner played Emergency Shutdown on your Neural Katana.
If they make a run on that server, Rez and trash Thomas Haas, then rez Neural Katana. They get hit with 3 net damage.

There are countless other examples.
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Brodie
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kriiztos wrote:
He's also unexpected credits.

You have 1-3 creds and the runner played Emergency Shutdown on your Neural Katana.
If they make a run on that server, Rez and trash Thomas Haas, then rez Neural Katana. They get hit with 3 net damage.

There are countless other examples.


Yes - he's an economically-neutral* bank. Instead of clicking to gain a credit, you click to store it and one from your pool.

* Less the click to install and the credit to rez. He gets better as an economic card if you upgrade his server with Simone Diego.
 
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Jake Mix
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Jinteki: Replicating Perfection is going to love Successful Demonstration, wow!
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Mara
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Really good observations here; I've tried to collect my thoughts on the new cards and give them some reviews out of 5 stars:
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/12887952#12887952
 
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Steven Tu
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How the hell is Minelayer an HB card? How?! It's entirely too Jinteki to go into HB. Even at 1 influence.
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Mychal
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Tuism wrote:
How the hell is Minelayer an HB card? How?! It's entirely too Jinteki to go into HB. Even at 1 influence.

Meh. Tricky code gates are MOSTLY a Jinteki thing, but not entirely. It's like complaining that Pheromones wasn't an Anarch card...

Now, if it shifted/rearranged already installed ICE instead of installing an ICE from HQ, I might agree more. But there is plenty of precedent that HB is the most efficient at installing. (core identity, Shipment From Mirrirmorph, Haas' Pet Project). This card fits that theme nicely.

Edit: How could I forget Accelerated Beta Test!?
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Christian Smith
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Tuism wrote:
How the hell is Minelayer an HB card? How?! It's entirely too Jinteki to go into HB. Even at 1 influence.


Its a super server ice that triggers EtF on the runner's turn and gives extra installs without needing clicks/credits just like ABT and Mirrormorph. Seems pretty HB to me.
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Brian H
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Skylar114 wrote:
It's like complaining that Pheromones wasn't an Anarch card...


Not really, because HQ harassment is definitely a Criminal thing.
 
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Mychal
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MavericK96 wrote:
Skylar114 wrote:
It's like complaining that Pheromones wasn't an Anarch card...

Not really, because HQ harassment is definitely a Criminal thing.

And efficient installs are definitely an HB thing. The point I was making was that some people convince themselves that ALL code gates which effect ICE must be Jinteki and ALL tricky econ viruses must be Anarch.
 
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Ludovic schmidt
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gokubb wrote:
Am I missing something on Thomas Haas? It costs you a click and a credit to advance him. When you use him, you get your credit and an additional back. Why didn't you just use the click for a credit in the first place? Its certainly not an eco gainer. All it does is protect somewhat from Vamp and Account Siphon at the cost of a ton of clicks. I'm not really impressed. Certainly not the Account Siphon answer I was hoping for.

I guess it can kind of make sense with NBN never advance type strategies with Matrix Analyzer in front of it. Free credit and trash right before they access it to get it. But I wouldn't waste the influence for that meager effect.


that could be good against siphon ...



http://www.netrunneronline.com/forum/?thread=2571
 
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Tuism wrote:
How the hell is Minelayer an HB card? How?! It's entirely too Jinteki to go into HB. Even at 1 influence.


I really wish Thomas Haas was renamed as something else and was a Jinteki card -.-

New Jinteki Dream Combo: (Not worth going for, but always fun) Whirlpool ---> Minelayer ----> Cellportal (With a hand of 5 ice and an akitaro in the root) + 3 brain trust counters. (Never going to happen, but would make my day if I ever saw it)
 
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J F
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Would minelayer proc engineering the future's ability? It is technically a new turn.
 
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Bob Smithy

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MalzanFaren wrote:
Would minelayer proc engineering the future's ability? It is technically a new turn.


Yes, it would.
 
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David Windrim
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Also, in re: Thomas Haas - Psychographics becomes, more or less, a "double your money" card.

I've been NBN in games and had two in my hand and only one credit or so (Code Gate, why u no pay me directly angry) - with a good tag pool (hi Data Raven etc.) you can play one for 3 advance on Tommy, sac him for 6, and hey presto! Let's fast-advance Restructured Data Pool/Mandatory Upgrades/etc.

Other thoughts:
-The Source seems like it'd actually be likely to hurt the Runner more than the Corp in most cases except pure Fast Advance - it's like installing Red Herrings on every server, enjoy any traps at all that leave you even $1 short of the $3 to steal it.

-Successful Demonstration is a great dick move - +$5 (+$6 for WC:BABW) for already suffering a loss in tempo...nowhere near broken, but I can tell it's going to piss me right off after I fail a close run and the jerk rebuilds their reserve cash seconds later.
 
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Bryan Blumklotz
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finalultros wrote:

-Successful Demonstration is a great dick move - +$5 (+$6 for WC:BABW) for already suffering a loss in tempo...nowhere near broken, but I can tell it's going to piss me right off after I fail a close run and the jerk rebuilds their reserve cash seconds later.


This card may make Big ICE viable vs. Criminal again. You spend credits to rez big ICE. Normally you play big ETR ICE and then it gets shutdown. Now you can rez it and then re-rez it or pay for something else. Suddenly Forged Activation Orders becomes a better econ denial card.
 
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Bob Gabel
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I'm surprised no one is talking Thomas Haas in a Wayland deck. Lots of free advancement tokens and great for making money for your big ICE.
 
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Micheal Keane
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Damocles346 wrote:
I'm surprised no one is talking Thomas Haas in a Wayland deck. Lots of free advancement tokens and great for making money for your big ICE.


Weyland-Because We Built It's credits can only be used to advance ice.
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