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Subject: Making a run on HQ and accessing Snare rss

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Manu
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To my complete surprise, I saw a game where:
- the runner makes a run for HQ
- the corp doesn't rez the only piece of ice
- the runner draws one random card from the corp deck and picks Snare

... and the Snare actually affects him (net dmg + tag).

But, wait, nothing in the rules mentions that! The rules state either trash (if trashable and you pay up), steal if agenda, and everything else goes back in player's hand. This was tournament play so I'm sure it's correct, but it sort of gutted me that this could happen.

 
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The text on Snare! tells you to do something when the Runner accesses it, so you do so. If Snare! wasn't meant to work from HQ, it would have to say so (as it does for Archives).
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Alejandro G.
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What does the card say?
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Frank D.
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Quote:
If Snare! is accessed from R&D, the Runner must reveal it.

If you pay 4 [Credits] when the Runner accesses Snare!, do 3 net damage and give the Runner 1 tag. Ignore this effect if the Runner accesses Snare! from Archives.
 
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Alejandro G.
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supamanu wrote:
This was tournament play so I'm sure it's correct...


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Chris Ferejohn
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supamanu wrote:
To my complete surprise, I saw a game where:
- the runner makes a run for HQ
- the corp doesn't rez the only piece of ice
- the runner draws one random card from the corp deck and picks Snare

... and the Snare actually affects him (net dmg + tag).

But, wait, nothing in the rules mentions that! The rules state either trash (if trashable and you pay up), steal if agenda, and everything else goes back in player's hand. This was tournament play so I'm sure it's correct, but it sort of gutted me that this could happen.



The rules also say that if the text of a card contradicts the text of the rules, the text on the card wins.
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Mike Bialecki
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supamanu wrote:
To my complete surprise, I saw a game where:
- the runner makes a run for HQ
- the corp doesn't rez the only piece of ice
- the runner draws one random card from the corp deck and picks Snare

... and the Snare actually affects him (net dmg + tag).

But, wait, nothing in the rules mentions that! The rules state either trash (if trashable and you pay up), steal if agenda, and everything else goes back in player's hand. This was tournament play so I'm sure it's correct, but it sort of gutted me that this could happen.



What was it that gutted you about your story? Getting nailed by a Snare! from HQ? That's a pretty standard use of Snare! Keep a bunch of 'em in your hand and just hope some poor sap with an HQ Interface takes a run at your HQ.

As for your confusion....there are plenty of possibly ambiguous rules in Netrunner, but the use of Snare! is definitely not one of them. Read the card and do what it says.
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James W
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supamanu wrote:
To my complete surprise, I saw a game where:
- the runner makes a run for HQ
- the corp doesn't rez the only piece of ice
- the runner draws one random card from the corp deck and picks Snare

... and the Snare actually affects him (net dmg + tag).

But, wait, nothing in the rules mentions that! The rules state either trash (if trashable and you pay up), steal if agenda, and everything else goes back in player's hand. This was tournament play so I'm sure it's correct, but it sort of gutted me that this could happen.



Don't take this as an insult but when I saw your avatar, I thought to myself...

brainsss...

 
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Manu
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Well the card description mentions R&D, not HQ.

And nothing in the rules mentions that a run on HQ can actually trigger a card effect.

And thanks for some of the rather nasty comments.
 
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Adrian Breuch
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Quote:
If Snare! is accessed from R&D, the Runner must reveal it.

If you pay 4 [Credits] when the Runner accesses Snare!, do 3 net damage and give the Runner 1 tag. Ignore this effect if the Runner accesses Snare! from Archives.
There ae two conditional abilities printed on Snare!
Eaach ability has it's own effect and rigger condition.
The first one only triggers if accessed from R&D, the second one triggers only if accessed from somewhere else as Archives ("Not Archives" includes R&D, HQ and Remote Serverd).
Abilities are resolved one by one.

Edit:
Yes, there is no rule in the rulebook about conditional abilities triggerd by access (there is a part about agendas triggerd by scoring and stealing)...
But there is the Golden Rule in the rulebook and the cardtext said
"Ignore this effect if the Runner accesses Snare! from Archives."
Just read it as "Do not ignore this effect if the Runner accesses Snare! not from Archives."
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Alejandro G.
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Why wouldn't this go off in HQ?

If Snare! is accessed from R&D, the Runner must reveal it.
(This line is only telling us that if the Runner sees it when they hit R&D, they can't put it back and pretend they didn't hit the trap, so they have to reveal it.)

(Obviously, if they are accessing it from HQ you will both know that they hit a Snare.)

If you pay 4 [Credits] when the Runner accesses Snare!, do 3 net damage and give the Runner 1 tag. Ignore this effect if the Runner accesses Snare! from Archives.

(You pay 4 if they access from a Remote, HQ or R&D. This card has zero punishment if it's accessed from archives.)


Hope that clears it up.
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Alvin Simon
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Also see the FAQ. It has something about accessing cards.
 
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Justin
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Quote:
Rulebook page 5, The Golden Rule: If the text of a card directly conflicts with the rules in this book, the card text takes precedence

Rulebook page 13, 3. Access Phase: HQ: The Runner accesses one random card from HQ and any upgrades in its root. Any cards the Runner does not score or trash return to HQ.

Card, Snare!: If you pay 4 when the Runner accesses Snare!, do 3 net damage and give the Runner 1 tag.

Per the rules, cards break rules.

Per the rules, runners access cards from HQ.

Per the card, Snare can be triggered by the corporation when accessed.
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Paul DeStefano
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supamanu wrote:
And nothing in the rules mentions that a run on HQ can actually trigger a card effect.


Remember The Golden Rule.
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Jonathan Buckley
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supamanu wrote:
Well the card description mentions R&D, not HQ.


Very true; however, when you take something from HQ the Corp. is very likely to see the card being taken, and will proceed to playfully rub it in your face the moment you see you accessed Snare!

When the Runner takes a card from R&D the Corp. doesn't know what card the Runner saw at that time, (unless the card was stolen, triggered or trashed).

The text here is more of an instructional reminder to reveal it if you accessed it from R&D.

Let's say you accessed it from R&D on your first click and didn't follow its text correctly, putting it back on the deck. You spend your entire go, then the Corp. draws the card and says, "Hang on...you accessed this Snare! Why didn't you reveal it? I could have flatlined you that go!" and then an argument ensues.
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Thanee
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supamanu wrote:
Well the card description mentions R&D, not HQ.


It also mentions Archives.

Why should it not work from Archives, specifically, if it only works from R&D?

As has already been explained above, the line with R&D is purely to make sure, that the Corp player knows that the Snare! was accessed. In all other cases, the Corp player knows it, too, so only R&D needs a special case rule here.

The two parts of the Snare! effect are simply two independent effects, both of which can happen (one is only relevant for R&D, the other is relevant for any server except Archives).

Bye
Thanee
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Alejandro G.
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Thanee wrote:
supamanu wrote:
Well the card description mentions R&D, not HQ.


It also mentions Archives.

Why should it not work from Archives, specifically, if it only works from R&D?

As has already been explained above, the line with R&D is purely to make sure, that the Corp player knows that the Snare! was accessed. In all other cases, the Corp player knows it, too, so only R&D needs a special case rule here.

The two parts of the Snare! effect are simply two independent effects, both of which can happen (one is only relevant for R&D, the other is relevant for any server except Archives).

Bye
Thanee


What does the card say?


If Snare! is accessed from R&D, the Runner must reveal it.

If you pay 4 [Credits] when the Runner accesses Snare!, do 3 net damage and give the Runner 1 tag. Ignore this effect (3 Net Damage if the Corp pays 4 credits) if the Runner accesses Snare! from Archives.
 
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David Bell
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Thanee's point was that it's the exception that proves the rule: By explicitly not working from archives, it implicitly works everywhere else. He wasn't actually asking if it doesn't work from archives, he was just being rhetorical.

Also, I will take any opportunity to show off a proper use of 'exception that proves the rule.'

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Justin Borges
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xpiredsodapop wrote:
What does the card say?


Ring-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding!

...

Why am I the first to say it?
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Adrian Breuch
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mrborges wrote:
Why am I the first to say it?

Just because the answers were before septembter 2013
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