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Subject: Best with 5 rss

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Andrew Young
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It is refreshing to see that players have voted that this game is best with the maximum player count. So many games on BGG have 'best' player counts that cause me to scratch my head thinking the game isn't a game until all seats are filled.

Well done, BGG. You're getting tougher!

 
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David Debien
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medievalbanquet wrote:
It is refreshing to see that players have voted that this game is best with the maximum player count. So many games on BGG have 'best' player counts that cause me to scratch my head thinking the game isn't a game until all seats are filled.

Well done, BGG. You're getting tougher!



It's good at all player counts. With 5, you get a lot of 3 and 4 way elections, which are really messy and makes negotiating all but impossible. I prefer 4.
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Andrew Young
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What do you mean by messy?
 
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David Debien
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medievalbanquet wrote:
What do you mean by messy?


It's just really hard to make deals that make sense to anyone when you have so many peole vying for so many wards. With 3 or 4, you usually dont have more than 2 people vying for a ward, and typically, those 2 people will have more than 1 ward they are vying for. This makes a quid pro quo deal very easy to arrange. With 5 player, you have to get very creative to strike deals. Almost like a math trade where A helps B in order to help C so that C can help A. Those never pan out either because someone won't go in on it due to trust issues or if a deal is struck it falls apart When someone renegs on the deal. Messy.
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Andrew Young
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How about the offices? Making deals with those?
 
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To be fair, there's absolutely no reason this has to be played as a negotiation game.
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Andrew Young
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NateStraight wrote:
To be fair, there's absolutely no reason this has to be played as a negotiation game.


Agreed.
 
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David Debien
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medievalbanquet wrote:
How about the offices? Making deals with those?


Oh, for sure.
 
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David Debien
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medievalbanquet wrote:
NateStraight wrote:
To be fair, there's absolutely no reason this has to be played as a negotiation game.


Agreed.


Also, agreed. Better as one though.
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Andrew Young
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Thing is the board state can change so drastically during the game. IE. You can have a strategy in this one but you better be able to play tactically. So, deals are good but I could see other players changing the nature of a deal between 2 or 3 players b/c ward states change (unless they are frozen). And deals aren't binding…

 
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Thomas Berton
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casualgod wrote:
medievalbanquet wrote:
What do you mean by messy?


It's just really hard to make deals that make sense to anyone when you have so many peole vying for so many wards. With 3 or 4, you usually dont have more than 2 people vying for a ward, and typically, those 2 people will have more than 1 ward they are vying for. This makes a quid pro quo deal very easy to arrange. With 5 player, you have to get very creative to strike deals. Almost like a math trade where A helps B in order to help C so that C can help A. Those never pan out either because someone won't go in on it due to trust issues or if a deal is struck it falls apart When someone renegs on the deal. Messy.


I've played several five player games and have not seen many elections with more than two players in a ward. Three happens sometimes, but not particularly often and I don't think I've ever seen somebody enter a ward that already has three people in it. Why would that ever make sense? Better to concentrate on the wards you're already fighting for.
 
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David Debien
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tberton wrote:
casualgod wrote:
medievalbanquet wrote:
What do you mean by messy?


It's just really hard to make deals that make sense to anyone when you have so many peole vying for so many wards. With 3 or 4, you usually dont have more than 2 people vying for a ward, and typically, those 2 people will have more than 1 ward they are vying for. This makes a quid pro quo deal very easy to arrange. With 5 player, you have to get very creative to strike deals. Almost like a math trade where A helps B in order to help C so that C can help A. Those never pan out either because someone won't go in on it due to trust issues or if a deal is struck it falls apart When someone renegs on the deal. Messy.


I've played several five player games and have not seen many elections with more than two players in a ward. Three happens sometimes, but not particularly often and I don't think I've ever seen somebody enter a ward that already has three people in it. Why would that ever make sense? Better to concentrate on the wards you're already fighting for.


If I see two people cutting deals I will enter a ward they are in to become a third and disrupt the deal. Agreed that 4 ways dont make sense, but 1 boss to disrupt 2 others players making a deal is a bargain.
 
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Max Michael
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We worked very hard to make this scale well and believe "it's a game"
regardless of player count.
I'm yet to see any feedback that indicates
it is not a game with less than five. If so I'm all ears so we can avoid any pitfalls in the future.
I have seen suggestions that first time players
should play a three player game in order to make tracking
the variables easier. I suspect experienced players most often prefer the
challenge of four opponents and all of the roles in play. Perhaps they are the ones voting for Best with Five?

Max Michael
StrataMax Games


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Thomas Berton
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I think the game is best with 5, but still very good with three or four. A five player game has the best catch-up mechanism, since you must give somebody the Deputy Mayor.
 
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