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Subject: Is this Union attack correctly done? (with lots o' snazzy pictures!) rss

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David Janik-Jones
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Slywester Janik, awarded the Krzyż Walecznych (Polish Cross of Valour), August 1944
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I'm wondering if I have this Union attack that we played out last evening correct. I've recreated the boardgame positions using Vassal and Photoshop. I was playing the Confederate forces


In the previous turn the Yankees declare an Attack order. This is their attack move declaration and opening bombardment.


Early's heavy artillery is bombarded in the opening attack salvo but with the two remaining "any" artillery and the one on the ridge, the glorious Confederate forces fire into advancing Yankee line.


Sickle's leading line takes a reduction and sadly has to replace it with the one tattered flag strength unit.


The final advance to combat see Sickle's lines crash into the stalwart defenders. The value that we get from this combat is +1 figured thusly: 2 Confederates vs 1 Union. No other 8.4 Close Combat Modifiers seem to apply. Which means: Attacker wins, and both sides take a reduction. Sickles front line unit is lost, and as Confederate leader I get the 1 tattered flag Early unit in replacement. A Union win!


Then, following the W-A-R-M sequence we get to the March order. The Union player expends a March/Field Works token and advances his 11/24 Sickles unit through three moves to the 18/19 position, stopping because he is both out of moves and adjacent to an enemy unit.


Since the Confederate player had (foolishly?) not ordered a Withdrawl in his previous turn, I was stuck with my Hold order. In the W-A-R-M sequence of moves I must now conduct a 2-length retreat move, the first part of which must be to my rear. I move both units backwards from their 21/18 position and must stop because I am adjacent to an enemy unit. Because I am now adjacent to a new enemy after that retreat, I must also be reduced.


My one reduced unit is eliminated and the remaining one I am once again stuck with the single flag reduced unit on the board with rthe luck of the Union player picking that one.

So my question is ... is everything correctly done in this sequence of play?

Thanks for any feedback.
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gehazi mann
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"If a withdrawing block enters a position adjacent to an enemy block, it must ends its move there, unless it was in the same position as or adjacent to that same enemy block before the withdrawal, in which case it can keep moving."

Page 11, Withdrawal Moves, 4th paragraph.

Also, from the top of page 12,

"If multiple pieces in the same position are liable to being reduced in this way, only one is reduced, the choice being up to the retreating player."

To expand then, if they had been forced to withdraw, you can freely move adjacent to an enemy block without reduction so long as you were already adjacent, so you don't have to stop after the first move. And even if you had, you don't need to reduce both blocks, only one.
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Rich James
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No, there are a few mistakes.

First, the defenders can only play a max of two artillery tokens (attackers don't have this limit).

Second, that would mean Sickles wasn't reduced, since the CSA would have been left with only 1 Any artillery and that plus 1 for the ridge isn't enough.

That would lead to a close combat with full strength blocks on both sides. You take the leading block for the USA vs. the lead block for the CSA. That is full strength Sickles vs. full strength Early. The other blocks are not part of the math. So that is 2-2 = 0 (again, that is not 2 blocks vs 2 blocks, but rather one 2-strength block vs. another 2-strength block). That is an Attacker loses result and the lead block for each side takes a reduction. The USA blocks must then immediately Withdraw.

Now, assuming the situation were such that Sickles had been reduced as you showed, the final advance is still figured wrong. That would be the reduced-1 Sickles vs. the full strength Early. Again, the other blocks are not part of the math. So that is 1-2 = -1. That is (again) an Attacker loses result and both sides take a reduction. The lead USA block will be eliminated and the remaining Sickles block (still at full strength) must immediately Withdraw.

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Rich James
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Regarding your withdrawal, the Confederates could have withdrawn by pivoting North and then continuing off map. That would have avoided any reduction penalties.
 
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gehazi mann
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He should also be able to retreat back to 4/5.
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Rachel Simmons
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It was not resolved correctly.

The defender can't play more than two artillery tokens in a position.

In close combat, you subtract the defender's strength from the attacker's, not the other way around. A 1-strength Union block attacking a 2-strength Confederate block would produce a -1 result, not a +1 result, resulting in a defeat for the attacker, not the defender.

The Confederates should not have had to withdrawal, but if they had, the withdrawal was not correctly done. The Confederates were not adjacent to a new enemy after the withdrawal; they were already adjacent to that same enemy before the withdrawal.

If the Confederates had been adjacent to a new enemy, they would not have had to apply more than one reduction per position, regardless of the number of blocks in that position.
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David Janik-Jones
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So much missed. Must keep reading. Thanks all.
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Stephen Rochelle
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Clarifying Gehazi's point about withdrawal eligibility: the Confederate withdrawal (assuming, for the moment, that it should have happened) doesn't occur until the Confederate player's turn. It doesn't matter that the final Sickles block isn't adjacent at the end of the attack that dictates the withdrawal; since it's adjacent when the withdrawal begins, Early can continue withdrawing from positions that are adjacent to it.

Otherwise, it looks like Gehazi and Rich have covered things: too many defending arty tokens, reversed terms in the initial close combat calculation, incorrect withdrawal limits and reductions.
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Randy C
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Can the attacker play 3 tokens from one position even tho only 2 blocks in that position?
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Rachel Simmons
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Calxx55 wrote:

Can the attacker play 3 tokens from one position even tho only 2 blocks in that position?


Yes.
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Here the truceless armies yet / Trample, rolled in blood and sweat; / They kill and kill and never die; / And I think that each is I. // None will part us, none undo / The knot that makes one flesh of two, /
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Sick with hatred, sick with pain, / Strangling -- When shall we be slain? // When shall I be dead and rid / Of the wrong my father did? / How long, how long, till spade and hearse / Puts to sleep my mother's curse?
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bowen wrote:
Calxx55 wrote:

Can the attacker play 3 tokens from one position even tho only 2 blocks in that position?


Yes.


Bowen,

What is the highest number of Artillery tokens the Attacker may place on 1 position (during phase 3 of the Attack Procedure)?

I've read through the Artillery Organization and Attacks section of rule 13 (Attack Moves), and I can't answer this question. I see the requirement of tokens and their organizationally matching blocks, but even with this, I cannot figure what is the most number of tokens the Attacker may place in front of 1 position of his attacking units.
 
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Stephen Rochelle
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No token limit, but you can only apply 3 points of fire per position, so that's your practical limit. (Step 5 of attack procedure)
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Here the truceless armies yet / Trample, rolled in blood and sweat; / They kill and kill and never die; / And I think that each is I. // None will part us, none undo / The knot that makes one flesh of two, /
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Sick with hatred, sick with pain, / Strangling -- When shall we be slain? // When shall I be dead and rid / Of the wrong my father did? / How long, how long, till spade and hearse / Puts to sleep my mother's curse?
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lomn wrote:
No token limit, but you can only apply 3 points of fire per position, so that's your practical limit. (Step 5 of attack procedure)


That's it - thank you!
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