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Subject: "The Deck" rss

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Alex Rockwell
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Given that the best thing to do in Netrunner right now is Account Siphon someone repeatedly, I present "The Deck". (If early Magic can have a "The Deck", so can we!)

This deck uses Siphon, not to attempt to get someone to $0, but tries to use it when it is guaranteed to generate the full $10 (or at least to break a corp who had like $10 to start, not $5, and then punish that by running R&D and remotes). It then uses that money to quickly develop further, draw lots of cards, and provide strong pressure.

*****************************************
"The Deck"

Andromeda: 45 cards

3 Account Siphon
3 Same Old Thing (C&C) (that's Siphon #4-6)

3 Dirty Laundry (C&C) (don't be afraid to use it on Archives turn 1 if you need to. Hopefully with Desperado, making it like a Sure Gamble. Basically this card replaced Easy mark, and is usually superior, and almost never worse)

3 Sure Gamble
2 Bank Job (punish economy assets)
2 Kati Jones (use early, build, take lots of money to help play Crypsis and pay to get your first Siphon off. If they are ignoring it later you can use a spare action to put 3 on her. Alternately, Kati is the backup plan for if a Siphon fails, or you cant draw them for a long time)

3 Crypsis (needed to guarantee success on your first Siphon)
1 Corroder **
1 Mimic *
2 Yog.0 ** (your final rig is probably Crypsis, 2 other Breakers, 2 Datasucker. Replace the Crypsis with the third breaker only if you are pretty sure they wont have Troubleshooter)
3 Datasucker *** (makes all runs more efficient, pressures archives)
2 Special Order (try to Quality Time up some cards and play rig pieces you draw, and Special Order for what you didnt get. This deck might look light on breakers, but it has 7 breakers + 2 tutors + 3 quality time. Do not lose breakers. You need crypsis, and you need to install drawn breakers right away and not lose them to damage)

3 Desperado (the card you most want in opening hand)
2 R&D Interface **** (two R&D interfaces + 3 Quality Times tends to result in drawing as many R&D interfaces as 3 R&D/0 QT. This is your primary win condition: R&D lock. The massive Siphoning provides you fuel and slows the corp a ton. This deck is also strong at stealing agendas from remotes)

3 Quality Time *** (After playing the burst economy at the start, this fuels more economy and strong development. After a Siphon, it finds more pieces of your rig to play, and more Siphons)

3 Emergency Shutdown (Don't let them get a BIG defense. You can crush several small ice with your efficient rig and Datasuckers very cheaply).
2 Inside Job (When they try to score an agenda, Siphon them then Inside Job it. You will get in)

3 Plascrete Carapace (never remove a tag! ever! You need three of these. Drawing into them is your answer to PSF locking)
1 E3 Feedback Implants

Minor tweaks could be made to things, like swapping a Yog for a Mimic, slightly changing the numbers of Kati, Bank Job, Emergency Shutdown, and Inside Job, or whatever.
********************************************

This deck almost never gets bad hands, especially with the mulligan. Try to mulligan for Desperado, though I would keep a good non-desperado hand such as: 2+ Economy cards, Quality Time, Breakers, Siphon. This hand will still let you wreck the opponent and then draw 5.

This deck pressures all servers with minimal effort.
Simply Playing Desperado and Datasucker pressures Archives. If they dont ice it, just go: "Run archives 4 times for $4 and 4 counters". Watch them ice it. Then try to force them to pay for that ice at some annoying time.

R&D interfaces pressure R&D, and are your primary win condition. If they dedicate themselves to making it hard to get to R&D, they wont have much Siphon defense or much remote server defense.

Siphon and Shutdown pressure HQ. The great part is that you dont even have to run HQ that many times to provide big pressure there, and even if they defend it significantly, your Siphons still provide good value. If they defend this heavily to try to stop the Siphons, you probably just R&D lock them.



Counters: There are no hard counters. There are various cards that provide some counterplay, and make it a game, rather than simply a corp getting destroyed by repeated Siphons.


Psychographics: This can put the corp in positions later on where drawing a Beale or 5/3 agenda can win or score many points. Probably the best counter.

Closed Accounts: Negates part of the Siphon. This deck should attempt to Siphon and then spend money deveoping, so as to reduce the impact. Also, once it Siphons into lots of money, it should hold economy cards in hand until needed, so that it recovers better after Closed Accounts.

Defended Money Assets or High Rez cost things: A defended and unrezzed Eve Campaign or Adonis or SanSan can be annoying. But this deck should try to account for that, and only Siphon that corp when they have like $10+. Undefended assets get punished by Bank Job.

Archer + Troubleshooter: If the corp can actually manage to get some money and catch the runner with this (probably on HQ), it might wreck critical rig pieces. Still, This deck can win with only crypsis, its just harder. of course, this deck also counters Archer with Emergency Shutdown.

PSF Lock: A potential counter, but has problems. If combined with a Closed Accounts it can work well. Alone, my experience is that the runner still defeats it by drawing into Plascretes, playing them, and then running the corp's hand later after it filled with agendas and they had to start discarding other things.

Unexpected Scorch: If the criminal player is convinced you dont have Scorch, and doesnt put their plascrete out, this might work. Note: ALWAYS put a plascrete out. Even if they dont have Scorch you might need it later if they score a PSF. You have sufficient economic advantage from the infinite siphoning to afford to waste $3.

Efficient Ice: Things like Eli and Ichi are annoying, but the deck does play an E3 to neuter them somewhat. When build up, the deck runs through most small ice very cheaply, and it Shutdowns expensive ice, so its pretty hard to counter.

Aggressive Secretary: This can cripple the rig, at least for a while. Its good to never leave yourself with no remaining Crypsis in your hand/deck, because then this card wrecks you.

If you had a rig of Crypsis + Mimic + Yog + 2 Datasucker, and secretary comes and kills two of them, you can still draw more cards and end up with a rig of Crypsis + Corroder + 2 Datasucker, or even Crypsis + Corroder + Yog + 2 Datasucker. That should be fine.


Mistakes you could make playing The Deck:
* Fail an early siphon. Dont do this. Your first siphon is the most important thing in the game. Use a Crypsis and sufficient money, and try to run a corp with plenty of money too. Try to get them to rez their HQ ice first. (Desperado + Datasucker is effective at this). The best chance the corp has agaisnt you is if they can block your early siphon or rez something like Eve and bring themself to almost $0 and deny you.

* Fail to put out your Plascrete. Seriously, play it.

* Remove tags. Seriously, you need to just not care.

* Run into damaging things (esp Jinteki) with key Breakers or Siphons in hand. Play your breakers and use your Siphon, dont lose them.

* Be paying money + clicks to access 1 R&D card at a time, early on. If the access is almost free, do it. Or if it costs a couple click but you gain a $ from Desperado and a counter on Datasucker, do it. But if you have to put a counter on Crypsis, and pay to break a Wall of Static, to look at one card, don't. Instead draw, build, and Siphon them. Soon you will be able to tutor for your corroder, have a Datasucker, have an R&D interface, and be able to lock them efficiently.


If you do not meta heavily against The Deck, you lose to The Deck. I'm not really even sure how to make a good counter to it, but maybe you start with NBN Psycho/Beale, or you play a strong HB deck and add things like Closed Accounts.


Summary:
With a 9 card start and three Draw 5 effects, its very likely that The Deck will have what it wants, and it has explosive burst-economy starts that put it into an early lead.

The Deck gains economic advantage over the opponent in massive bursts via Siphons, and uses that advantage for explosive development (get $10, install multiple new cards, draw 5 with QTime). Meanwhile, the corp is held back by the Siphons, and is slower to build defenses.

It then uses the economic lead that it has gained in order to put efficient pressure on all servers, with the efficient Anarch Rig + Datasuckers + Desperado.

It refuses to remove tags, instead forcing the corp to make you care in some way. Plascrete counters Scorch, immediately using some of the siphoned money reduces Closed Accounts power, and even with tag punishment cards, it is hard for the corp to make the runner pay sufficiently to counteract the massive gains achieved by Siphoning and not paying to remove tags.
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Dirk Tebben
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The main thing I'm wondering is how Kati Jones combines with "never remove a tag".
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My guess is that if you got all these tags it was from siphons meaning you don't need the Kati money. So either you are making money with Kati or you are making money with siphons and don't need her.
 
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Alex Rockwell
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stillnotking wrote:
The main thing I'm wondering is how Kati Jones combines with "never remove a tag".


Turn 1 Kati, build up for like 4 turns, and then take the money. This gives you enough to play Crypsis and get in for a Siphon.


You could remove Kati and replace with other economy. Maybe that will prove better in time. I just like knowing that turn 1 Kati by herself gives me enough economy to do what I need in several turns, even if I dont have enough other burst economy stuff.

Also, once youre tagged, them killing Kati still costs $2 and a click. Try to force them to trash her, by putting $3 on her again or something.



Additionally, Kati is like a backup plan if they manage to stop your Siphon somehow, or if you don't draw one for a long time.
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Adam Perry
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the concept is to only use kati for the first siphon, and then use those siphons to siphon for the rest of the game.

seems like a virus purge/aggsec would be sort of bad for this deck?
 
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Alex Rockwell
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experimilk wrote:
seems like a virus purge/aggsec would be sort of bad for this deck?


Virus purge doesnt really do anything. (And if archives isnt defended, the response is probably 'run archives four times').

Aggressive Secretary is strong, and perhaps this deck needs to trade a couple cards for Infiltration.
Still, after losing a couple breakers, you can probably replay another Crypsis and a different other breakers, and be okay. Its not as good as the full rig but its okay.
 
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Adam Perry
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bank job for infiltration? you're losing a bit of money, but if the whole point is to get 10 from AS every time you can then :shrug:
 
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Dirk Tebben
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Alexfrog wrote:
stillnotking wrote:
The main thing I'm wondering is how Kati Jones combines with "never remove a tag".


Turn 1 Kati, build up for like 4 turns, and then take the money. This gives you enough to play Crypsis and get in for a Siphon.


You could remove Kati and replace with other economy. Maybe that will prove better in time. I just like knowing that turn 1 Kati by herself gives me enough economy to do what I need in several turns, even if I dont have enough other burst economy stuff.

Also, once youre tagged, them killing Kati still costs $2 and a click. Try to force them to trash her, by putting $3 on her again or something.



Additionally, Kati is like a backup plan if they manage to stop your Siphon somehow, or if you don't draw one for a long time.


Letting the corp build for 4-5 turns is definitely not the way I play Criminal, but I know you know what you're doing so I'm sure the deck works. I do think a fast corp deck could be a problem. Let NBN score that first ASPP and you can be in trouble.

Personally, I'd go with quicker econ (Modded/Easy Mark/Armitage) and shoot for the early Siphon to get the ball rolling. That may be force of habit on my part!

I don't think it's a cardinal sin to remove tags early on, if you have to -- it's better to Siphon and remove tags than to require a draw into Plascrete first.

Another issue I see is lack of expose effects. A corp that forces you into hard choices of whether or not to run advanced cards could win a lot of the time. That'll be even more true in C+C, I think.

Edit: I see I got ninja'd on the last point.
 
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Alex Rockwell
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experimilk wrote:
bank job for infiltration? you're losing a bit of money, but if the whole point is to get 10 from AS every time you can then :shrug:


You could. And if the meta shifted away from undefended remotes maybe you should.

Right now I'm seeing lots of undefended or weakly defended remotes, with Pad, Marked Account, Eve, etc.

You generally cant siphon right away, you need some development (Crypsis) and sufficient money to guarantee success, so you need enough burst economy cards to get you there.

Bank Job allows some insane plays, for example:
Turn 1 they make an undefended remote.

You go: Sure Gamble, Desperado, Bank Job, Dirty Laundry it.
You finish the turn with $17 and a Desperado in play.

You follow that with some development and killing their Pad/whatever, and running centrals.

Then you Quality Time and install more cards.

Then you Siphon them.

Then you just keep playing lots of things, drawing lots of cards, and attacking and siphoning.
 
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Arto H
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Very nice deck, would only thinking to add 3x Easy Mark to quickly recover from Closed Accounts.

EDIT I feel these Criminal decks have made Closed Accounts a lot more popular in many corp decks.
 
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Alex Rockwell
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stillnotking wrote:

Letting the corp build for 4-5 turns is definitely not the way I play Criminal, but I know you know what you're doing so I'm sure the deck works. I do think a fast corp deck could be a problem. Let NBN score that first ASPP and you can be in trouble.


I definitely don't let them go 5 turns without being attacked. Usually turn 1 is gain lots of economy, and turn 2 involves making runs, forcing ice rezzes, running that remote. This blows their early money. Then my goal is that once they get some money again, siphon it.

Inside Job is also great against early remotes. So is Bank Job.


Quote:

Personally, I'd go with quicker econ (Modded/Easy Mark/Armitage) and shoot for the early Siphon to get the ball rolling. That may be force of habit on my part!


Modded is super fast econ (but not as fast as Siphon). Easy Mark and Armitage are slower econ that all of the things this deck plays. (Lower $ requirement to play doesnt mean 'fast'. When you are Andromeda, and you play lots of good burst economy cards, you generally dont get down to $0).

The entire point of this deck is that it is playing the absolute fastest, most bursty economy cards, to gain a big early lead. Combined with the 9 card start, you just get off to such an insanely fast start.
You start with 9 cards and $5. You should be able to generate money with those 9 cards.

Note that often an early play to generate money is to get Desperado + Datasucker, and then run archives 3-4 times in a turn. You gained money, and the counters will help guarantee success on your Siphon.

Quote:

Another issue I see is lack of expose effects. A corp that forces you into hard choices of whether or not to run advanced cards could win a lot of the time. That'll be even more true in C+C, I think.

Edit: I see I got ninja'd on the last point.


I do want to fit infiltration in somehow...
 
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List looks fine, although there are some things I disagree with.

But I can't get behind the name. Magic's "The Deck" earned its name through years of dominance of eternal formats in various permutations. At this point the game is too young for any deck to have that kind of dominance, much less one containing cards that haven't been printed yet. Win Worlds with it three years in a row or something first. :P
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Alex Rockwell
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aHein wrote:
Very nice deck, would only thinking to add 3x Easy Mark to quickly recover from Closed Accounts.


Having Desperado + some Datasucker counters allows you to recover very quickly from a Closed Account with the cards in this deck. Get a couple bucks, play Bank Job, go use it. Get several bucks, Dirty Laundry them.

If archives isnt defended yet its really easy to recover from running it for money and counters. The datasucker counters really help protect some of your 'money' from closed accounts. Its good to hold several. They let you make cheap runs in order to get desperado money, dirty laundry money, bank job money, or maybe even siphon.

Alternately, if they purge counters, you take the free turn to attack and replenish them. They cant do both in one turn (generally).
 
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brisingre wrote:
Magic's "The Deck" earned its name through years of dominance of eternal formats in various permutations.


I do believe that the core of this deck will maintain itself as a dominant archetype for years. The various 2-3 ofs will become 1-2 ofs, and new power cards will enter, and new 1-of unique cards or siler bullets may appear.

But...this deck is truly insane. Its not like its unestablished. You pretty much take the Andromeda list that has dominated recently, you replace Easy Mark with a more powerful Dirty Laundry, and cut 1 of a couple cards to fit in Same Old Thing.



The cycle of: "Siphon you, Quality Time, build rig, repeat" is simply crazy powerful. Thats what this deck is all about. The corp barely moves forward because it keeps losing $5, while the runner progresses in leaps and bounds.

That cycle is basically the equivalent of "The Deck's cycle of: "Draw many cards, play mana accelerators, answer your threats, force you to discard (or counterspell your plays).

Account Siphon + Quality Time is kindof like Mana Drain + Braingeyser. It hinders the opponent (counters their spell), provides you economy (the Mana Drain mana), and draws many cards.
 
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Andrew Barrett
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can we spend less time arguing with alex and more time figuring out how to beat this deck? Right now, I play a whizzard deck that is like 20-2 and it's ONLY because it plays 3 siphons and 3 deja vus.

Account siphon is "the" card and if it somehow isn't already the main reason you lose your corp games, then it will be very soon.

How to beat siphon? I guess you start by designing a suite of ice that manhandles the anarch package and go from there. Looking for some mid-range sentries and barriers with 2+ subs.
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Alexfrog wrote:
brisingre wrote:
Magic's "The Deck" earned its name through years of dominance of eternal formats in various permutations.


I do believe that the core of this deck will maintain itself as a dominant archetype for years. The various 2-3 ofs will become 1-2 ofs, and new power cards will enter, and new 1-of unique cards or siler bullets may appear.

But...this deck is truly insane. Its not like its unestablished. You pretty much take the Andromeda list that has dominated recently, you replace Easy Mark with a more powerful Dirty Laundry, and cut 1 of a couple cards to fit in Same Old Thing.



The cycle of: "Siphon you, Quality Time, build rig, repeat" is simply crazy powerful. Thats what this deck is all about. The corp barely moves forward because it keeps losing $5, while the runner progresses in leaps and bounds.

That cycle is basically the equivalent of "The Deck's cycle of: "Draw many cards, play mana accelerators, answer your threats, force you to discard (or counterspell your plays).

Account Siphon + Quality Time is kindof like Mana Drain + Braingeyser. It hinders the opponent (counters their spell), provides you economy (the Mana Drain mana), and draws many cards.


Kinda? It's such a different game... Although I guess it is technically a U/x Control Deck, even if that means much different things here...
 
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Chill84 wrote:
can we spend less time arguing with alex and more time figuring out how to beat this deck? Right now, I play a whizzard deck that is like 20-2 and it's ONLY because it plays 3 siphons and 3 deja vus.


I know. Now get ready to add three Same Old Thing.

Quote:

Account siphon is "the" card and if it somehow isn't already the main reason you lose your corp games, then it will be very soon.


I guess you start by designing a suite of ice that manhandles the anarch package and go from there. [/q]

One problem is there isnt much. The anarch breaker suite is pretty dominant.

Troubleshooter can force them to pay a bunch of money to break something with Crypsis. Maybe the return of Troubleshooter is one part of the answer, along with Closed accounts.
 
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This deck or a very similar deck is the strongest runner deck for genesis. While the jury is still out for the corp, the runner has a fairly clear champion deck.

The recipe is simple:
1) Criminal Identity (Gabe and Andromeda are both good)
2) Play all the OP cards: Desperado, Shutdown, Siphon, Inside Job, Special Order
3) 3x Crypsis + Some Anarch Breaker + Datasucker
4) Few persistent ressources + TagMe Attitude + Plascrete
5) R&D Interface. Makers eye in older decks

There are different flavors but the basic concept is always similar
 
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There's some options.

-You beat Syphon by icing HQ.

Syphon has the potential to be a fifteen credit swing if you disregard the tags, which this deck does.

It costs a card, an action, and however much it costs to run HQ.

So you make it expensive to run HQ.

The combination of fixed-strength breakers and Emergency Shutdown makes that a little bit harder, but the fixed-strength breakers are the deck's biggest weakness. It needs to make an HQ run to set up Shutdown, and if there's big ice on HQ it needs a lot of datasucker counters to make that run. Assuming you've built up your centrals at least a little bit, Datasucker counters are at least inefficient to get, and that puts pressure on the deck.

-You beat this list with Aggressive Secretary and tight play. There are no expose effects, unless I've misread it, and it's quite vulnerable to destruction of its' datasuckers.

-You beat Andromeda by stopping her from snowballing. Andy's early game is great, her mid-game is awful, and late-game always favors the runner. The goal of an Andromeda deck, very broadly, is to turn that early advantage into momentum that can carry her through the game. This deck plays a lot of things like that, Account Syphon, Desperado, and Datasucker are all primarily good for staying ahead if you're already ahead. Conceptually, you want to stop Andromeda on her first few turns. This is a pretty high-concept strategy, of course. In execution, I dunno, Ichi? Early-game program destruction seems good.

-You beat tag-me strategies with Psychographics. If a metagame fills up with people who keep a lot of tags from Account Syphon, install-beanstalk-Psychographics an Astroscript leaves you with no credits and scores you an agenda instantly.

-Remember, if you're poor, Syphon does nothing.
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Bryan Goodwin
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Chill84 wrote:
How to beat siphon? I guess you start by designing a suite of ice that manhandles the anarch package and go from there. Looking for some mid-range sentries and barriers with 2+ subs.


My personal conclusion is that there is no "beating" Siphon with the current card set. Rather, you simply work to minimize the hurt it delivers. This is validated by the fact that the only real defense is to spend all of your money so the runner can't take it... which leaves you broke anyway. So even when the Siphon fails, the Runner will just take the access and carry on while you're looking for two credits to rub together.

Siphon already has a built-in balance with the two tags; the real problem is that there is not sufficient tag punishment available to allow the meta to evolve to discourage tag-disregarding decks like this.

PSF seems like the best(?) option, since eventually the runner has to clear tags (if they don't finish you off while you're spending all your time taking tokens off of Plascretes), but really each faction ought to have their own flavor of tag punishment. They don't necessarily need new ways to deliver tags (those can be imported from NBN), but there's plenty of design room for a thematic tag-punisher in-faction for HB & Jinteki; maybe even Neutral. Even something as simple as ICE that punishes a tagged runner more thoroughly, or an asset/upgrade with a constant effect (runner loses a click/takes 1 net damage) at start of turn if tagged would be helpful.
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Bryan Goodwin
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brisingre wrote:
Remember, if you're poor, Syphon does nothing.


If you're poor, you're losing.
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Lou Lessing
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Miaowara_Tomokato wrote:
brisingre wrote:
Remember, if you're poor, Syphon does nothing.


If you're poor, you're losing.


No.

If you're not making money, you're losing.

If you're spending your money efficiently every turn, you're getting value from it without leaving it vulnerable.

Play some HB Fast Advance.
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Alex Rockwell
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brisingre wrote:
There's some options.

-You beat Syphon by icing HQ.


I feel like you havent really played against this deck. It happens fast and its hard to get much HQ defense going by then, but also if you solely defend HQ that it simply crushes you in every other area.
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Miaowara_Tomokato wrote:
Even something as simple as ICE that punishes a tagged runner more thoroughly, or an asset/upgrade with a constant effect (runner loses a click/takes 1 net damage) at start of turn if tagged would be helpful.



Here is what we need:

An End the Run ice with: "Gains +1 strength for each tag the runner has". (The problem is, this would break Midseason Replacements).
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Phillip DeCarbo
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Lately I've been running with an Andromeda deck that is basically money, draw, breakers, go.

Rather than go the Crypsis route, I've been using a standard breaker suite, because finding all three types isn't hard with all the draw + Special Order.

I've actually been having some success using New Angeles City Hall to avoid tags rather than going tag-me ignore style. This has allowed me to go with a bunch of resources, including Mr. Li, who has proved fantastic for getting the card you want, as well as keeping Kati around & using Armitage.

It's all about reaching the late game phase as quickly as possible, but what I gave up in doing it is a multi-card dig option, like R&D Interface. Still, I have had a lot of success with it, but it could simply be because it's a Criminal deck, rather than it being a well designed deck.
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