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Subject: Is it bad form to walk away from a loosing game....... rss

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Mark Synowiec
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I'm not talking walking away from a group game when you're loosing, or just having a bad time, I'm talking about playing a co-op where you are one to two turns from loosing with a 0% chance of winning. I guarantee that if you play the next however many turns your group will loose. My best example is when I've been playing Arkham Horror solo (but running a few characters) before and had more portals then investigators with only two open doom tokens. I chalked it up as a loss and packed it up. I had fun playing the round, and was enjoying myself, but I saw no point in playing the last few rounds (and two investigators were lost in time and space).

Am I the only one that does this or am I just a bad sportsman? I enjoy the game, but when you're looking at a loss regardless of the function that I preform within the game I prefer to either re-set up or start another game and have more time for something else. I won't walk away if I'm playing something competitive or in a group if everyone else still wants to play, I'm speaking whole group loosing in a co-op when you will loose no matter what.
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James To My Friends
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If my trousers are too loose I'm walking away. No one deserves to see my soiled underwear.
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Christopher Taylor
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If everyone at the table was in agreement that the game was over, sure - why not?

If you're playing solo, you should obviously agree with yourself that the game was over. I hope.
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J C Lawrence
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The game is over when the victor is determined. In the case you describe, the victor has been determined.
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Terry Gwazdosky
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If it was a new game to me I'd want to finish it regardless since I'm just learning it. Otherwise, I leave it up to the group. If they want to play it out, I stay and finish the game.

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John Rogers
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clearclaw wrote:
The game is over when the victor is determined. In the case you describe, the victor has been determined.


I agree with this sentiment; however, if there are others at the table who are playing for social purposes or for doing the best they can (say a personal high score i.e. Agricola) then I see no harm in playing out the game for them.
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Boaty McBoatface
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John Rogers wrote:
clearclaw wrote:
The game is over when the victor is determined. In the case you describe, the victor has been determined.


I agree with this sentiment; however, if there are others at the table who are playing for social purposes or for doing the best they can (say a personal high score i.e. Agricola) then I see no harm in playing out the game for them.
Or just doing something else sociable, like talking?
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Boaty McBoatface
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If a game is obviously lost I see no reason not to end it, how long is a couple more turns going to last? End the game then discus why you lost.
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Ryan Werner
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clearclaw wrote:
The game is over when the victor is determined. In the case you describe, the victor has been determined.


This basically. Take Chess for example. In higher levels of play, the game doesn't usually end in a checkmate, but by the loser realizing that checkmate is inevitable and conceding defeat. If one player has clearly won, even in competitive play, surrender is always an option. Good sportsmanship is the winner not being upset and forcing the loser to play a losing game for his own satisfaction, if the loser wishes to concede.
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Enrico Viglino
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slatersteven wrote:
John Rogers wrote:
clearclaw wrote:
The game is over when the victor is determined. In the case you describe, the victor has been determined.


I agree with this sentiment; however, if there are others at the table who are playing for social purposes or for doing the best they can (say a personal high score i.e. Agricola) then I see no harm in playing out the game for them.
Or just doing something else sociable, like talking?


I find debating whether the game is over a fun social experience.

But, there may be more than victory at stake. It's always a group
decision.
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Enrico Viglino
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XDragon350 wrote:
clearclaw wrote:
The game is over when the victor is determined. In the case you describe, the victor has been determined.


This basically. Take Chess for example. In higher levels of play, the game doesn't usually end in a checkmate, but by the loser realizing that checkmate is inevitable and conceding defeat. If one player has clearly won, even in competitive play, surrender is always an option. Good sportsmanship is the winner not being upset and forcing the loser to play a losing game for his own satisfaction, if the loser wishes to concede.


Competitive play is only about winning and losing - thus it is not
surprising that that outcome, which can be resolved by a concession,
is all that matters.

Extending that thinking to enforce it to apply to a group which
may have other interests in a co-op game beyond "did we meet X goal
defined in the rules" makes no sense. There is a social compact
made in settling to play a game, and the group stance should not
be assumed based upon what chess competitions use.
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Sarah ...
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Depends on the game for me ... if it’s a game where I’m invested in the story or the characters I may want to finish to just see how my character dies or loses ... But if I’m not invested and it’s a clear loss then I have no issue with finishing as long as that is what the group wants. If we don’t have time to play another game ... then usually still finish out the losing game, especially if it is cooperative because sometimes in losing you can learn a better strategy for next time, unless if you just lost because of unlucky rolls or draws.
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Eddy
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calandale wrote:
Competitive play is only about winning and losing - thus it is not surprising that that outcome, which can be resolved by a concession, is all that matters.

Extending that thinking to enforce it to apply to a group which may have other interests in a co-op game beyond "did we meet X goal defined in the rules" makes no sense. There is a social compact made in settling to play a game, and the group stance should not be assumed based upon what chess competitions use.

I don't know. I thought Chess made for a pretty good analogy, myself. I don't know that many chess players who consider the outcome to be all that matters.

I once saw two tournament Chess players (at the top of the open division) shake hands at the end of their game. Problem was, Player A offered his hand because clearly the game was by then a draw. But Player B accepted because by then the game was clearly his victory. A very astute tournament director immediately identified the disconnect, queried each player as to what they thought they were agreeing to, and then had to adjudicate a terminated game for which the players hadn't actually settled on an outcome. The ensuing discussion was rather fascinating. Ultimately, both players (and a rather substantial audience) agreed that all aspects of the social compact had been met.
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J C Lawrence
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John Rogers wrote:
clearclaw wrote:
The game is over when the victor is determined. In the case you describe, the victor has been determined.


I agree with this sentiment; however, if there are others at the table who are playing for social purposes or for doing the best they can (say a personal high score i.e. Agricola) then I see no harm in playing out the game for them.


At that point they are no longer playing a game, they are engaged in something like a see what happens exercise.
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Aaron Yoder
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If you intend to win base Arkham Horror by closing portals, you're doing it the hard way.
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Ian Richard
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I tend to go down fighting if I'm likely to lose soon. I've had some fantastic comebacks that I'd never expected.

While playing solo, there is no sportsmanship. If you aren't enjoying the game anymore... quit. There is nothing wrong with that.

The only issue I have with quitting is when other players want to finish the game. I personally find it bothersome to have a single player refuse to finish a game despite the group wanting to continue. If the other players want to finish the game... play the last few minutes*.

If this a consistent behavior, I probably wouldn't invite somebody back.

*I'll waive the issue on games like monopoly that will last another 2 hours despite the winner already being determined. **** that.
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Larry Kruger
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This is especially hard to sort out in a group game with player interaction, and a likely king-making scenario.

I was playing Through The Ages and getting trounced so badly that the only purpose I was serving was to contribute culture points to each player that was fortunate to have the right cards to attack me. The game had crossed over to ludicrous and one player was mad at my suggestion of dropping out, aka conceding defeat, because he wanted to make the easy attacks on me for culture points. I had no defense, no population to build resources, and therefore, no game. We played it out, but it was definitely an asterisk-win.
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M M
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Willward wrote:
calandale wrote:
Competitive play is only about winning and losing - thus it is not surprising that that outcome, which can be resolved by a concession, is all that matters.

Extending that thinking to enforce it to apply to a group which may have other interests in a co-op game beyond "did we meet X goal defined in the rules" makes no sense. There is a social compact made in settling to play a game, and the group stance should not be assumed based upon what chess competitions use.

I don't know. I thought Chess made for a pretty good analogy, myself. I don't know that many chess players who consider the outcome to be all that matters.

I once saw two tournament Chess players (at the top of the open division) shake hands at the end of their game. Problem was, Player A offered his hand because clearly the game was by then a draw. But Player B accepted because by then the game was clearly his victory. A very astute tournament director immediately identified the disconnect, queried each player as to what they thought they were agreeing to, and then had to adjudicate a terminated game for which the players hadn't actually settled on an outcome. The ensuing discussion was rather fascinating. Ultimately, both players (and a rather substantial audience) agreed that all aspects of the social compact had been met.

I would say that fits within the correct definition above. It's fine to end a game so long as everyone in the game is fine with it ending. But if it's a 4-player game and 1 or 2 of the people want to play it out, walking away from the table because, "the conclusion is obvious" would be bad sportsmanship in my book even in a co-op game.

@the OP: The opposite of winning is "losing". The opposite of tightening is "loosening". "Loosing" means, and is the opposite of, nothing at all.
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Eddy
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Mat628 wrote:
@the OP: The opposite of winning is "losing". The opposite of tightening is "loosening". "Loosing" means, and is the opposite of, nothing at all.

But it's also pretty straightforward to read what he meant, not what he typed.
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Mark Judd
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Willward wrote:
Mat628 wrote:
@the OP: The opposite of winning is "losing". The opposite of tightening is "loosening". "Loosing" means, and is the opposite of, nothing at all.

But it's also pretty straightforward to read what he meant, not what he typed.

Loosing instead of losing is probably the most often misspelled word I've seen online. I see no problem with trying to politely correct someone's mistake.
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Boaty McBoatface
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Beaveman wrote:
Willward wrote:
Mat628 wrote:
@the OP: The opposite of winning is "losing". The opposite of tightening is "loosening". "Loosing" means, and is the opposite of, nothing at all.

But it's also pretty straightforward to read what he meant, not what he typed.

Loosing instead of losing is probably the most often misspelled word I've seen online. I see no problem with trying to politely correct someone's mistake.
loosing

English
Verb

loosing

Present participle of loose.
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Ryan Werner
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calandale wrote:
XDragon350 wrote:
clearclaw wrote:
The game is over when the victor is determined. In the case you describe, the victor has been determined.


This basically. Take Chess for example. In higher levels of play, the game doesn't usually end in a checkmate, but by the loser realizing that checkmate is inevitable and conceding defeat. If one player has clearly won, even in competitive play, surrender is always an option. Good sportsmanship is the winner not being upset and forcing the loser to play a losing game for his own satisfaction, if the loser wishes to concede.


Competitive play is only about winning and losing - thus it is not
surprising that that outcome, which can be resolved by a concession,
is all that matters.

Extending that thinking to enforce it to apply to a group which
may have other interests in a co-op game beyond "did we meet X goal
defined in the rules" makes no sense. There is a social compact
made in settling to play a game, and the group stance should not
be assumed based upon what chess competitions use.


I don't mean to enforce anything, whatever happens should be agreed upon by your group. I think that if you're playing a game and someone wishes to concede, then they should not be compelled to continue playing. I didn't mean to imply that a game should end when a winner is obvious despite anything else. I just think that a player should have the option to surrender when they know they are going to lose and are no longer having fun. If they are still having fun, play should definitely continue. Of course there are other considerations for games that are competitive (not in a professional way) and larger than two people. What to do with that player's holdings, for example. In some cases it is a real bummer when someone quits early, but what are you going to do? Guilt-trip them into having a bad time?

Personally, I rarely ever concede because I just enjoy playing. If I do it's usually when I'm playing Backgammon, a game that I don't like so much anyway.

I emphasized competitive play because it seemed to me that OP was under the impression that ending the game by concession would be improper in a competitive game. I don't think we are talking about professional gaming or tournaments here.
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Mark Judd
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slatersteven wrote:
loosing

English
Verb

loosing

Present participle of loose.

That is correct. And what the OP meant to type was:
losing

present participle of lose (Verb)

Verb
1. Be deprived of or cease to have or retain (something): "I've lost my appetite".
2. Cause (someone) to fail to gain or retain (something): "you lost me my appointment at the university".
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Boaty McBoatface
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Beaveman wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
loosing

English
Verb

loosing

Present participle of loose.

That is correct. And what the OP meant to type was:
losing

present participle of lose (Verb)

Verb
1. Be deprived of or cease to have or retain (something): "I've lost my appetite".
2. Cause (someone) to fail to gain or retain (something): "you lost me my appointment at the university".
So you statement " "Loosing" means, and is the opposite of, nothing at all." was not (strictly) accurate, it does in fact mean something, it just does not mean anything in relation to the OP.
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Eddy
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Beaveman wrote:
Willward wrote:
Mat628 wrote:
@the OP: The opposite of winning is "losing". The opposite of tightening is "loosening". "Loosing" means, and is the opposite of, nothing at all.

But it's also pretty straightforward to read what he meant, not what he typed.

Loosing instead of losing is probably the most often misspelled word I've seen online. I see no problem with trying to politely correct someone's mistake.

Perhaps, but did it truly require correction? Publicly? What percentage of readers actually (and substantively) misunderstood what the OP meant in the first place?
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