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Subject: Length of turns.. Any way to shorten this? rss

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Bimmy Jim
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I've played games with lengthy turns before, such as Game of Thrones... but the difference is, each player plays simultaneously in that game...

In this game, it's possible not to even have a turn for 10-15 minutes (seemingly longer if you are in the brig and can't get out)...

You do get to contribute each turn to skill checks - but other than that, there is no interaction available to you (other than participating in "who are the cylons" discussions, which - by the way - can further increase length in between turns).

We just started playing this game (we played 4 games).. Is it normal for turns to take so long? It gets kind of boring if you don't get much time to play the game... I've had one game where everyone thought I was a cylon (when I was actually human) - got sent to the brig on turn 3, and wasn't able to leave for the entire game.. until the sleeper phase, where a kind cylon gave me a cylon card.

Can you not kill yourself as human to escape the brig?

Even if you don't get sent to the brig, I find it takes way too long for the turn token to be passed to you.
 
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Ossian Grr aka "Josh"
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How many players have you been playing with?
 
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Tim Silver
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Sounds like you just decided that this game isn't for you. 7 players is the only player count I try to avoid because of time between turns. I find that the game is still engaging enough between turns to keep people interested.
 
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Damien M
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BimmyJim wrote:

You do get to contribute each turn to skill checks - but other than that, there is no interaction available to you (other than participating in "who are the cylons" discussions, which - by the way - can further increase length in between turns).


You can provide suggestions on what actions to do. Also, Executive Order allows you to take actions out of turn (human generally have a hard time winning if they aren't XOing).
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Bimmy Jim
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jozxyqk wrote:
How many players have you been playing with?


1 game was with 6, the other 3 were with 5.

Another thing to note - is that this is all our first times playing the game.. so subsequent games may be faster.

In games such as Dominion, if we get 6 or more players, we simply split the table and have two separate games of 3 players (so we don't have to wait for 5 other players to take their turn).. obviously we can't do that in this game, but I was just wondering if there was another solution (such as two players playing simultaneously, etc.)
 
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Pasi Ojala
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BimmyJim wrote:
We just started playing this game (we played 4 games).. Is it normal for turns to take so long?


If you just started, yes, it is normal. 5 players is the optimum player count for balance but also for tolerable not-my-turn-yet 'downtime'.

As already suggested, down-time is minimized if you think about and suggest the best actions and talk about when to deliberately tank a skill check (and of course which crisis card option to choose, if available).

When learning the game you can very well play with 3 players with some precautions (taking out one Brig card out of the Quorum deck and disallowing Balthar's OPG). But as you learn the game, decisions become faster and the downtime shorter. It used to take 3+ hours for a game, we routinely play a game with both expansions (third expansion in pre-order) in 2-2.5 hours (to Kobol, no allies).

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Ossian Grr aka "Josh"
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BimmyJim wrote:
Another thing to note - is that this is all our first times playing the game.. so subsequent games may be faster.


This.
It takes a few games for everyone to get up to speed with what is possible, so they will be slow.
After you've played a bunch of times, the base game should get shorter.
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Pasi Ojala
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jozxyqk wrote:
After you've played a bunch of times, the base game should get shorter.


I'll also have to add:
- Use of Executive Order lets you act out-of-turn (already mentioned above).
- Being President or Admiral (or CAG with Exodus) lets you select crisis options out-of-turn.
- Being Admiral lets you choose destinations out-of-turn.
- Being Apollo lets you jump in a viper and get an action out-of-turn.

So, character selection is also a factor, and you should expect characters to have a different 'feel' to them when playing also in this respect. Depending on the board situation, being a pilot, support, admiral, or president (in President's office) lets you be a good target for XO's. But Admiral is also expected to give out XO's as much as he can.
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Michael Aldridge
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In truth, I often do more on other people's turns than I do on my own... particularly if I am XOing others and being XOed by others. But even if you're not the one who is taking a turn or being XOed, you are still engaged in seeing what everyone else does (and if you're not, you should be). This is part of the fun of BSG: trying to figure out what side each player is on based on their actions. Not only that, but you're also managing your own cards on every player's turn, trying to decide if you should play into a skill check or not. These things keep you constantly involved even when it is not "your turn".

So what if you're in the Brig? You need to be communicating/interacting during everyone else's turn to try to convince enough of the crew to let you out. And you're still contributing one card per Crisis.
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Aaron Cappocchi
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BimmyJim wrote:

You do get to contribute each turn to skill checks - but other than that, there is no interaction available to you (other than participating in "who are the cylons" discussions, which - by the way - can further increase length in between turns).


Participating in (and deciding which ones to skip, and clever Cylon spiking) Skill Checks, and the "who might be a Cylon?" meta-game is like 90% of the game. If only what you do on your turn matters, this may not the game for you. In a full game, you might only get 5-6 turns total over 3-4 hours. The game is not just about those times when you get to fire the guns or launch some Vipers, it's about all the spaces inbetween.
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Pieter
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A game lasts about 40 turns, and we usually finish within 3 hours. That's about 14 turns per hour, so less than 5 minutes per turn. On average. Of course, some turns tend to last longer.
 
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Colin Sham
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With a more experienced group, you'll also be less likely to argue over as much mundane issues. I remember when we first started playing, we would accuse and counter-accuse over basically everything.

Now, if someone says "that's what a Cylon would say", we just nod and move on. Let everyone make decisions on their own, because drawing out the argument for another couple minutes won't change anyone's mind.
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Pauli Vinni
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I allso agree that Galactica is not about action, the rules are very simple and there is not much to do, but this is a game of interaction, and that can be really fun. I love Galactica, but I know many peoples who are not a fond of it because they don't know how to handle the game mechanics to give them better results ;-) This is somewhat wrong game for that.
But yeah game time will get shorter (maybe), but in our playing group it has actually increased, because people are more plaing their characters, than actually making their best efford :-) And we have had some great time (except those people who want to "play" the game...)
 
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Bimmy Jim
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Hannibal_pjv wrote:
I allso agree that Galactica is not about action, the rules are very simple and there is not much to do, but this is a game of interaction, and that can be really fun. I love Galactica, but I know many peoples who are not a fond of it because they don't know how to handle the game mechanics to give them better results ;-) This is somewhat wrong game for that.
But yeah game time will get shorter (maybe), but in our playing group it has actually increased, because people are more plaing their characters, than actually making their best efford :-) And we have had some great time (except those people who want to "play" the game...)


Playing their characters as per the show? (like RPing?) that actually sounds kind of fun... can't wait to punch whoever plays starbuck.
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In our group we have a basic rule that the player who owns the turn, also owns the rigtht to speech.

It basically works this way:
The player recieves his skills.
Then he either make his choice of movement and action instantly without any discussion, OR: asks someone he belive that he trusts for advice on what to do.
When this is done the crisis is drawn and quickly examined. If it has a "Admiral/Presidet/CAG/Current player chooses" on it, the crisis is passed to the mentioned player without further reading. This person then makes his choice without involvement by the group. After the choice is made, it is official and the crisis card may be examined closer, before discarding.
If it is a skill check we proceed as normal.

Theese rules are combined with stricter secracy rules, which basically are that no open tactics discussions may be had, before all cylons are revealed.

All theese rules work very well in our group. They make it harder to be both human and cylon. Without the constant tactics discussions you are alone with the conspiracies in your head. Your turn gets more valued, and being alone with every choice keeps the thrill alive.

And most of all: as a cylon (or human) before, you could allways hide/get trapped behind the common consensus about a discission. Instead of making the choice in a group, now we make the judgementdevil


 
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CD Harris
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BimmyJim wrote:
I've played games with lengthy turns before, such as Game of Thrones... but the difference is, each player plays simultaneously in that game...

In this game, it's possible not to even have a turn for 10-15 minutes (seemingly longer if you are in the brig and can't get out)...

You do get to contribute each turn to skill checks - but other than that, there is no interaction available to you (other than participating in "who are the cylons" discussions, which - by the way - can further increase length in between turns).

We just started playing this game (we played 4 games).. Is it normal for turns to take so long? It gets kind of boring if you don't get much time to play the game... I've had one game where everyone thought I was a cylon (when I was actually human) - got sent to the brig on turn 3, and wasn't able to leave for the entire game.. until the sleeper phase, where a kind cylon gave me a cylon card.

Can you not kill yourself as human to escape the brig?

Even if you don't get sent to the brig, I find it takes way too long for the turn token to be passed to you.


Your orbits should get quicker with experience. That said, having played this game many times, I've never thought about how long it took between my turns. In fact, I rarely even think about when my turn will be unless there's reason to be concerned someone else will do something I wouldn't like or the game will screw up something I can fix before it gets back to me.

It's a cooperative game, so everyone should be engaged most of the time (even known Cylons in the Brig still get to put cards into spell skill checks). There's pretty much always something going on for each player to participate in, even if it's just a discussion of what to do or who to trust/not trust. Thinking in terms of my turn/not my turn isn't really productive.

EDIT: Frakking autocorrect.
 
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Pasi Ojala
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Amuk wrote:
(even known Cylons in the Brig still get to put cards into spell checks).


Battlestar Galactica - The Wizards' Edition!



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Joseph Cochran
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Frylen wrote:
In our group we have a basic rule that the player who owns the turn, also owns the rigtht to speech.


Oof! I'm not sure I'd enjoy playing that way. The interaction and group discussions are so much a part of the fun that I can't even conceive of playing it the way you outline here. Sure, group consensus can be a Cylon's bane, but (especially with the expansions) there are often several good options with the best being based on "what will happen on the next few crises" so there's plenty of space for healthy "discussion" amongst the crew. And finding sly ways to suggest something "best" that you know isn't actually best as a Cylon is a lot of fun! For example, as a Cylon with the Damage reveal, suggesting that it's okay to let Galactica be damaged by a crisis because "we can repair it later" when you know that you will actually just make the problem WORSE soon can be very fun.

That said, I'm glad that method works for you: please don't take my reaction as an indictment of your style!
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Joseph Cochran
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Amuk wrote:
Your orbits should get quicker with experience. That said, having played this game many times, I've never thought about how long it took between my turns. In fact, I rarely even think about when my turn will be unless there's reason to be concerned someone else will do something I wouldn't like or the game will screw up something I can fix before it gets back to me.


Yeah, the main reason that it's good to have it be "my turn" is that I get more cards at that time.
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