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Subject: Bartolome Della Casas rss

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Todd
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Hi. If I have this card I can choose to ignore the trademaster.

So I can opt to play 0 cards. Am I still allowed to participate and trade?

This would allow me to acquire more cards than other players as I am not getting rid of any.
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Wyckyd
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Falcons wrote:
Hi. If I have this card I can choose to ignore the trademaster.

So I can opt to play 0 cards. Am I still allowed to participate and trade?

This would allow me to acquire more cards than other players as I am not getting rid of any.


Well, if you put no cards up for trade, you won't be trademaster. So somebody else will start with picking a card. And they'll never pick a card from you, because you are offering none. So you won't ever have the chance to grab more cards.

The trading mechanic is set up such that every player will end the trade phase with the exact same amount of cards they had at the beginning.
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Todd
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Thanks. Now I understand.
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Christian Gindlesperger
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Wyckyd wrote:
Falcons wrote:
Hi. If I have this card I can choose to ignore the trademaster.

So I can opt to play 0 cards. Am I still allowed to participate and trade?

This would allow me to acquire more cards than other players as I am not getting rid of any.


Well, if you put no cards up for trade, you won't be trademaster. So somebody else will start with picking a card. And they'll never pick a card from you, because you are offering none. So you won't ever have the chance to grab more cards.

The trading mechanic is set up such that every player will end the trade phase with the exact same amount of cards they had at the beginning.


Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead--but...

So what if Bartolome shows up in a 2 player game? What if the player with him constantly refuses to trade any cards?

Seems like a pretty boring way to play--but if someone was to get ahead in points and then acquire Bartolome, just playing the luck of the draw would likely win the game (especially if that player had an advantage in caravels).

Even if the player with Bartolome just opted to trade one less than the Trademaster dictated, they would always gain cards...

Am I understanding this right? Or did I miss something in the rules?

To be clear, this isn't a strategy I would ever consider playing in 2 player, just worried it might come up against me someday...
 
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Wyckyd
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Yeah, in a two player game someone might use this card to remove the trading phase from the game. Not fun, but I'm guessing the game would be over pretty quick.

Invictus5000 wrote:
Even if the player with Bartolome just opted to trade one less than the Trademaster dictated, they would always gain cards...


Again, you can never end the trading phase with more cards than you started with. The player who offers the most in trade, becomes the trade master, and starts the trading. Now two things can happen:
- the last card picked might be one belonging to the trademaster
- the last card picked might be one belonging to another player

In the first situation, everybody has the same number of cards they had at the start. In the second situation, the Trademaster has 1 additional card, and the player whose card was picked last, is missing 1. That is why the rules say that in situation 2, the trademaster gives one card (their choice) to that player.

One player offering less card than other players doesn't upset this balance, because the number of cards you put out, is exactly the number of turns you can get (at most), which is equal to the number of cards you pick up. (And if you have any cards left over at the end of the round, you get those back.)
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Christian Gindlesperger
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Wyckyd wrote:
Yeah, in a two player game someone might use this card to remove the trading phase from the game. Not fun, but I'm guessing the game would be over pretty quick.

Invictus5000 wrote:
Even if the player with Bartolome just opted to trade one less than the Trademaster dictated, they would always gain cards...


Again, you can never end the trading phase with more cards than you started with. The player who offers the most in trade, becomes the trade master, and starts the trading. Now two things can happen:
- the last card picked might be one belonging to the trademaster
- the last card picked might be one belonging to another player

In the first situation, everybody has the same number of cards they had at the start. In the second situation, the Trademaster has 1 additional card, and the player whose card was picked last, is missing 1. That is why the rules say that in situation 2, the trademaster gives one card (their choice) to that player.

One player offering less card than other players doesn't upset this balance, because the number of cards you put out, is exactly the number of turns you can get (at most), which is equal to the number of cards you pick up. (And if you have any cards left over at the end of the round, you get those back.)


Ah, yes, you're right of course. I didn't think that through all the way. Thanks for laying it out for me!

Still, the first situation worries me a bit--although it's only a 2 player problem, and is probably rare in practice, it still effectively takes away a whole phase of the game.

Of course, it also locks the Bartolome player out of upgrading his/her hand as well, so it might also be a self-defeating strategy...

I'll keep my eye out for it as I log some plays...but if no one else has had issues thusfar, it's likely no big thing.
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Christian Gindlesperger
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Oops! Never mind! Just looking again at the cards, and Bartolome has a little 4 in the lower right--so he won't be coming out in games of less than 4 players.

Looks like Bruno and Serge have thought of everything! (...and I need to read more carefully...)
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