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Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: New FAQ Posted! (Also new Tourney Rules!) rss

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Jeff Wilder

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http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4258
 
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Jeff Wilder

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The most interesting answers from my first quick read-through:

Daredevil now gives a stress after performing it as a white maneuver. No more R2 Astromech. (Awww!)

Boost and Barrel Roll can no longer be used to go through an obstacle or ship.

Very straightforward and intuitive "when can we measure range" rules, which pretty much comport with what most folks have been playing. E.g., can you measure range before declaring Squad Leader? Yes, you can. You can basically check the game state to use abilities that rely on the game state to be used.

Dark Curse can't be hit with secondary weapons that require spending a focus token. Dark Curse is immune to the new Blaster Turret?!

If you fire with Cluster Missiles and miss, you get to fire your Gunner. Then you get to do the second Cluster Missiles attack. But note that Gunner itself disallows a second use if you miss with the second Cluster Missiles attack. I suspect there will be people who think they can use Gunner twice if they miss with both Cluster Missiles attacks.

Boost is given the same "measure before committing to this action" language as Barrel Roll.

Heavy Laser Cannons self-effect is on the first roll, but can then be modified normally. So yes, you can get crits with rerolls. Some of us suspected this was the intent, but the language is admittedly pretty bad.

Finally, in competitive play (which most people adhere to on VASSAL, e.g.), if you are concerned that your opponent is "abusing the rules," you can make them be more strict than the core rules in declaring target locks, boost, and barrel roll. Depending on how strict the community shakes out on "abusing the rules," I think this is an excellent compromise for competitive play.
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Joseph Woodworth
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Though - simultaneously - Tycho can now use daredevil effectively.
 
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Jeff Wilder

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ravncat wrote:
Though - simultaneously - Tycho can now use daredevil effectively.

True, but PTL remains far and away the best EPT for Tycho. In general, I think the loss hurts more than the gain heals.

I think this version of Daredevil is what was intended from the first, but the community-discovered synergy with R2 Astromech wasn't exactly breaking the game ... it just allowed a couple of fun squadrons to be halfway competitive, so I sorta wish they'd just shrugged and left it alone.
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Eric B.
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I wonder what's up with the "ships may not be removed from their bases" new addendum to the rules.


God knows in all the Regionals I played in, pulling at least one Falcon off its base was pretty much required to continue play.

If FFG is going to require that ships always have flight pegs adjusted to fit next to one another, given the prominence of Millenium Falcons and how much they overhang their bases, maybe they should have given us more big flight pegs (and maybe could have made it physically possible for the Falcon to stand on more than two pegs without toppling over).


Silly rule that I guess is meant to keep the game looking better for "photo ops" and "passer-bys."
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Jesse L
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Jeff Wilder wrote:
Daredevil now gives a stress after performing it as a white maneuver. No more R2 Astromech. (Awww!


And those of us who have always played it that R2 could not make Daredevil a white maneuver are somewhat vindicated. I got into many an argument over this. That and just in general that Daredevil gives you a stress token - no more "the action step happens after check stress so it doesn't give a stress" argument! hoorayyyy!
 
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Eric B.
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Cptnhalfbeard wrote:
Jeff Wilder wrote:
Daredevil now gives a stress after performing it as a white maneuver. No more R2 Astromech. (Awww!


And those of us who have always played it that R2 could not make Daredevil a white maneuver are somewhat vindicated. I got into many an argument over this. That and just in general that Daredevil gives you a stress token - no more "the action step happens after check stress so it doesn't give a stress" argument! hoorayyyy!



Indeed, just as those of us who argued that Nien Numb / R2-Unit make the White 1 Forward of an ion cannon effect green are similarly vindicated.
 
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how does the "no pre-measuring of range" rule affect check to see whether you are inside/outside of the firing arc of someone else? ie. can i check out if i am inside his arc and then attempt a roll/boost?
 
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Robert M.
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Duraham wrote:
how does the "no pre-measuring of range" rule affect check to see whether you are inside/outside of the firing arc of someone else? ie. can i check out if i am inside his arc and then attempt a roll/boost?

No.
 
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Jeff Wilder

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Duraham wrote:
how does the "no pre-measuring of range" rule affect check to see whether you are inside/outside of the firing arc of someone else? ie. can i check out if i am inside his arc and then attempt a roll/boost?

I wouldn't think so, but honestly, being able to tell if you're in-arc or not is something a serious player should be able to eyeball in all but the extreme close cases.
 
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Creed Buhallin
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Hm. Some nice clarifications. Need some time to digest it, but first thoughts:

- Premeasuring restrictions are now official, and exactly as the Rojo Cinco email suggested. Hope we can put the various conspiracy theories on that one to bed. When you can measure has also been clarified.
- I have no idea what impact the HLC ruling might have. It basically says that dice roll effects can't be triggered based on rerolls. I don't think this affects anything but the HLC for now, but will be interesting going forward. Absolutely hate the language on this one, but I see what they're trying to do (dice modification doesn't count as a roll, even if it's a reroll).
- Less idea than ever what an "attack" actually is. Dark Curse + spent focus tokens points to the Step 2 weapon selection, which still breaks turrets, and I have no idea how the hell you can make an attack with a Cluster Missile, miss, use Gunner, and then ignore the Gunner's text to make another Cluster Missile attack, especially if each attack is separate. The errata theoretically clarifies what an attack is, but half the new rulings don't seem to actually take that into account.

Overall there's a lot of relatively obvious answers, and of the questions that we were unresolved on it seems like half of them erode our understanding of the rules more than help them.
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Joseph Woodworth
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Buhallin wrote:
Less idea than ever what an "attack" actually is. Dark Curse + spent focus tokens points to the Step 2 weapon selection, which still breaks turrets, and I have no idea how the hell you can make an attack with a Cluster Missile, miss, use Gunner, and then ignore the Gunner's text to make another Cluster Missile attack, especially if each attack is separate.


Best I can guess - is that both "attacks" of the cluster missile attack are one attack - and a miss in either place triggers the gunner - I wonder if the gunner should resolve before the second cluster missile or after..
 
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Andreas Krüger
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Jeff Wilder wrote:

Daredevil now gives a stress after performing it as a white maneuver. No more R2 Astromech. (Awww!)


Technically, R2 still could change the maneuver to green. Not relevant yet, but maybe with later add ons.
 
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Andreas Krüger
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Too bad, they have missed the opportunity to clarify when you can measure for an attack. The general Q+A is a bit fuzzy (as part of declaring the target of an attack, before commiting to that target), and the competitive addendum does not clarify further. We will soon see an argument whether you can check if a target is in range 1/2/3 and then change target.
 
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ravncat wrote:
Buhallin wrote:
Less idea than ever what an "attack" actually is. Dark Curse + spent focus tokens points to the Step 2 weapon selection, which still breaks turrets, and I have no idea how the hell you can make an attack with a Cluster Missile, miss, use Gunner, and then ignore the Gunner's text to make another Cluster Missile attack, especially if each attack is separate.


Best I can guess - is that both "attacks" of the cluster missile attack are one attack - and a miss in either place triggers the gunner - I wonder if the gunner should resolve before the second cluster missile or after..


both occur at the same time, so you can choose.
 
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Eric B.
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Thamos von Nostria wrote:
Too bad, they have missed the opportunity to clarify when you can measure for an attack. The general Q+A is a bit fuzzy (as part of declaring the target of an attack, before commiting to that target), and the competitive addendum does not clarify further. We will soon see an argument whether you can check if a target is in range 1/2/3 and then change target.


Agreed, my sense now is that NO, you cannot measure range to a target until you declare that target, and then if they are in fact in range/arc, you must shoot them (whether or not they were at the range you wanted). Only if they happen to be out of legal range/arc can you switch to a different target.

This is the only way to make sense of "may measure before committing," given what that turned out to mean in the precedence cases of Barrel Roll and Boost, even though I think it's using a very quirky sense of commitment.
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Dave Weiss
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RogueThirteen wrote:
I wonder what's up with the "ships may not be removed from their bases" new addendum to the rules.


God knows in all the Regionals I played in, pulling at least one Falcon off its base was pretty much required to continue play.

If FFG is going to require that ships always have flight pegs adjusted to fit next to one another, given the prominence of Millenium Falcons and how much they overhang their bases, maybe they should have given us more big flight pegs (and maybe could have made it physically possible for the Falcon to stand on more than two pegs without toppling over).


Silly rule that I guess is meant to keep the game looking better for "photo ops" and "passer-bys."


My guess?
This is probably in response to some punk trying to fool people.

I could totally see someone pulling models off his pegs as 'they are getting close to touching' or 'I don't want my models scratched'. Then flying all his bases sans ships in a way to confuse the enemy. When called out on the ploy he'd likely respond with 'well, it's not my fault he targetted the wrong base, all the info is right there, I only removed the model' or 'you only need the base, the model is just fluff' or my favorite 'show me where in the rules it says i need to use the models'.

Playing in tourneys for other games, these kinds of D-bags surface all the time trying to do sneaky things only to force odd rules like this.
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Brian Huhtala
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RogueThirteen wrote:

Agreed, my sense now is that NO, you cannot measure range to a target until you declare that target, and then if they are in fact in range/arc, you must shoot them (whether or not they were at the range you wanted). Only if they happen to be out of legal range/arc can you switch to a different target.


Read the FAQ again. It says "before committing to that target." So, I am allowed to measure distance to a target as I declare it my target, but then I do not have to commit to it being my target. I can check distances to all available targets and then finally commit to one. At least that's how I read it.
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Eric B.
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Brian1981 wrote:
RogueThirteen wrote:

Agreed, my sense now is that NO, you cannot measure range to a target until you declare that target, and then if they are in fact in range/arc, you must shoot them (whether or not they were at the range you wanted). Only if they happen to be out of legal range/arc can you switch to a different target.


Read the FAQ again. It says "before committing to that target." So, I am allowed to measure distance to a target as I declare it my target, but then I do not have to commit to it being my target. I can check distances to all available targets and then finally commit to one. At least that's how I read it.


No argument from me, that's exactly how I had previously read "may measure before committing" as well--and indeed I think that's what it means in its most everyday sense. Nevertheless, that may not be what it means in X-Wingese: the ruling on Barrel Roll and Boost (both of which say you measure before committing) states that you

(1) Declare Barrel Roll Direction
(2) Measure Before Committing
(3) If the roll is possible in the intended direction, YOU MUST
(4) Only if the roll turns out not to be possible may you do something else

I assume it's analogous with picking targets and measuring range, though it's certainly using a very weird and non-intuitive sense of "measuring before committing." The only possible difference may be that the rulebook states "may measure to see if his ship can perform a barrel roll before committing" while the FAQ on measuring range states "may measure as part of an attack, before committing to that target." I'm not sure if the italicized part does enough work to make us think measuring-before-committing functions differently during attacking than it does during barrel rolling.


Committing is apparently a state you enter when you can no longer change your action. Declaring is apparently a state that locks you in and obligates you do to something, unless and only unless it turns out upon measuring that you can't do what was declared.


Unless I'm missing something? If anyone sees a meaningful difference between declaring/attacking targets and declaring and performing barrel rolls and boosts, please let me know.
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Keith Wilson
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RogueThirteen wrote:


(1) Declare Barrel Roll Direction
(2) Measure Before Committing
(3) If the roll is possible in the intended direction, YOU MUST
(4) Only if the roll turns out not to be possible may you do something else.


Where in the FAQ does it say that if the roll is possible in the intended direction you must complete the roll? Are you referring to the competitive addendum that only applies if your opponent thinks you are deliberately abusing the rules to gain an unfair advantage?
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Robert M.
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RogueThirteen wrote:
Committing is apparently a state you enter when you can no longer change your action. Declaring is apparently a state that locks you in and obligates you do to something, unless and only unless it turns out upon measuring that you can't do what was declared.


As I said in another thread recently, it's a staple of some tabletop minis games that you commit to a particular action (attack, etc.), and then measure. If it turns out that you're out of range, you're just out of luck--you can't back up and do it over. X-wing was designed to be more forgiving in that respect.

But it appears as if the designers didn't intend the state of affairs that you can measure the distance between the active ship and every other ship before deciding what you want to do. It's okay to have Wedge shoot at someone other than his intended target if his target turns out to be illegal--you're not committed in the sense of potentially losing that attack. But you do have to declare who you're aiming at--it's (apparently) not okay to measure from Wedge to every ship in his firing arc before deciding who you want to attack.
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Creed Buhallin
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Welp, so much for the nice big block of red resolving the measurement debates
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Andreas Krüger
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kjpw_88 wrote:
Are you referring to the competitive addendum that only applies if your opponent thinks you are deliberately abusing the rules to gain an unfair advantage?


(Italics mine). Oh yes, I failed to see how they managed to make even the tournament addendum somewhat fuzzy. Of course, I am already thinking that my opponent is abusing the rules when he places the first ship on the table ;-).

Anyway, for casual games, a larger amount of measuring is indeed allowed by the rules.
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Ken
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In general I agree with Rogue Thirteen, They all read the same way.

But, as it's written...
Friendly house interpretation or a specific legal interpretation?
 
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Ron B
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****CORRECTED*****

If you fire with Cluster Missiles and miss, you get to fire your Gunner. Then you get to do the second Cluster Missiles attack. But note that Gunner itself disallows a second use if you miss with the second Cluster Missiles attack. I suspect there will be people who think they can use Gunner twice if they miss with both Cluster Missiles attacks.


*****NO, once gunner/luke triggers, that ship's attack is over*****

Per FFG James on the FFG forum, update coming to the FAQ soon.

~Ron
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