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Subject: Thinking of buying Survive: Escape from Atlantis rss

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Moe45673
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Need a "real" game to play with potential casual gamers, to show them that there's more out there than Monopoly and Risk. Dixit/Resistance are party games; King of Tokyo is more of a filler and I love it but it doesn't scratch the strategy boardgame itch; Lords of Vegas actually fills the hole, but only plays up to 4 and I'd also like a game that isn't economic to switch it up.

S:EfA seems perfect, quick, and fun. Is there something else out there that would serve me better?

Btw, I'd like to steer clear of co-ops
 
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David B
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How many players do you need it to handle? If 5, give China a look. A very smooth simple area control game with elegance and depth.
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Mo
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Hey, Moe! Survive! is an excellent game. It was one of the first ones I introduced to my family after I found this hobby. Just wanted to let you know a couple of things from my experience just in case. It plays best with 4P...although I never tried it with more. I played 3P a few times and it's just too open for my liking. The game is about sharks eating little meeples and whales capsizing boats and whatnot. With fewer players, there seems to be less interactions.

Which brings me to my second point. If you will be playing with people who do not enjoy direct and intentional conflict, it may not go over well. Obviously, it's all in fun watching the shark fin work its way across the water and attack your little guys. That's the point of the game after all.

My family enjoyed this...at first. But over time and through repeated plays, they have become less enthusiastic about the conflict.

I still think its a great game. Just wanted to put the other side out there for you to consider.

Good luck!
Mo
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Moe45673
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David, thank you very much for the rec. I've never heard of this game and it looks promising. Why do you recommend this over Web of Power?

Mo, thanks for your thoughts as well. I'll tell you that after Tammany Hall, I don't think any game can hurt my feelings!
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Thomas
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Team D20 wrote:
I would have to mirror the sentiment that Survive is fun, but does not play well with more or less than 4.

As for some games that go a bit higher, I believe that most people who can handle jumping into games at all can handle both Power Grid and Keyflower.


I disagree, play all the time with two. Just flip to tiles per turn and it keeps the tension strong. It's a blast. What about Takenoko or Ninjato, they only support 4 though.
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David B
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Moe45673 wrote:
David, thank you very much for the rec. I've never heard of this game and it looks promising. Why do you recommend this over Web of Power?

Mo, thanks for your thoughts as well. I'll tell you that after Tammany Hall, I don't think any game can hurt my feelings!



I just bought China brand new for $18. Web of Power is out of print , hard to find, and much more expensive. Even if Web of Power is a little bit better, the two games are so similar it would be crazy to pay that much more for WoP. Michael Schacht does not get the credit he deserves. He has come up with some quite memorable mechanics and scoring systems that are so simple yet offer so much gameplay. I have heard many say that Web of Power and/or China are his masterpieces. I could not resist.
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Curt Carpenter
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People who are new to the hobby will probably find Survive excellent. But it's really not that great. I bought the latest version after having fond memories of both the old Survive and the other game that's basically exactly the same that I'm too lazy to go check, and it fell completely flat. It's extremely old-school. Like you could pick almost any "gateway" game in the last 15 years and likely fare better. Except maybe if the specific people really like the idea of target-attacking individuals, which has mostly fallen out of favor in most modern gateways.
 
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Dennis Engilis
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I think you are getting some good advice from the above responders regarding Survive. It can get quite nasty as the sharks and such don't do that they do unless a player makes them do it.

Two alternatives that I will mention are ...

Ticket to Ride The original game plays with 2-5 but be careful of some of the others which have been designed for 2 or 3. This is one of the most popular games that gamers introduce to nongamers. Easy to learn and play and lots of fun.

Zooloretto I'll be honest here. I just recently acquired this game and have not played it yet but have heard good things about it from many gamer friends. It also plays up to 5.

Good luck with your quest.
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David B
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Kythrid wrote:
Two that I will mention are ...

Ticket to Ride The original game plays with 2-5 but be careful of some of the others which have been designed for 2 or 3. This is one of the most popular games that gamers introduce to nongamers. Easy to learn and play and lots of fun.

Zooloretto I'll be honest here. I just recently acquired this game and have not played it yet but have heard good things about it from many gamer friends. It also plays up to 5.

Good luck with your quest.



Another great Michael Schacht title. Zooloretto is probably more family friendly than China. China is area control where Zoo is set collection, hence Zoo is a little more laid back. But this is just more evidence that Schacht deserves to be mentioned in the same company as Moon when talking about gateways.
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Moe45673
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Thanks again, all. Survive looks so tempting, but maybe it's not for me. I'll need to play it, lots of people do seem to like it. Plus, I like the idea of attacking other players. Not many games nowadays have you actually killing meeples (in a lighthearted way)! Curt, you say that like it's a bad thing, but why does it have to be?

I've played the base game of TTR a number of times.... I once played the Scandinavia version 2p. TTR bores me and I don't even care enough to find out what 1910/Europe/etc adds to it.

Zooloretto I've heard good things about, thanks. I'll look into that

What about Dice Town + expansion (too filler-y)? China is available at my OLGS for $25 so I might pull the trigger on that (I think some light direct conflict is fun. Those who don't can play Dixit)

Also, Kingdom Builder/Ginkopolis/Kingsburg (plus expansion). Thoughts on those?
 
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Thomas
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Moe45673 wrote:
Thanks again, all. Survive looks so tempting, but maybe it's not for me. I'll need to play it, lots of people do seem to like it. Plus, I like the idea of attacking other players. Not many games nowadays have you actually killing meeples (in a lighthearted way)! Curt, you say that like it's a bad thing, but why does it have to be?

I've played the base game of TTR a number of times.... I once played the Scandinavia version 2p. TTR bores me and I don't even care enough to find out what 1910/Europe/etc adds to it.

Zooloretto I've heard good things about, thanks. I'll look into that

What about Dice Town + expansion (too filler-y)? China is available at my OLGS for $25 so I might pull the trigger on that (I think some light direct conflict is fun. Those who don't can play Dixit)

Also, Kingdom Builder/Ginkopolis/Kingsburg (plus expansion). Thoughts on those?


I vote for Kingsburg for what it's worth. What about Garden Dice?
 
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Curt Carpenter
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Moe45673 wrote:
Not many games nowadays have you actually killing meeples (in a lighthearted way)! Curt, you say that like it's a bad thing, but why does it have to be?

It doesn't have to be a bad thing, but it's kinda inelegant.

Moe45673 wrote:
Also, Kingdom Builder/Ginkopolis/Kingsburg (plus expansion). Thoughts on those?

All of those are vastly superior. Ginkgopolis is a bit more complex, and Kingsburg + expansion is a LOT more complex.
 
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Dennis Engilis
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Moe45673 wrote:
Thanks again, all. Survive looks so tempting, but maybe it's not for me. I'll need to play it, lots of people do seem to like it. Plus, I like the idea of attacking other players. Not many games nowadays have you actually killing meeples (in a lighthearted way)! Curt, you say that like it's a bad thing, but why does it have to be?

I've played the base game of TTR a number of times.... I once played the Scandinavia version 2p. TTR bores me and I don't even care enough to find out what 1910/Europe/etc adds to it.

Zooloretto I've heard good things about, thanks. I'll look into that

What about Dice Town + expansion (too filler-y)? China is available at my OLGS for $25 so I might pull the trigger on that (I think some light direct conflict is fun. Those who don't can play Dixit)

Also, Kingdom Builder/Ginkopolis/Kingsburg (plus expansion). Thoughts on those?


If you and your friends or family are okay with that type of screwage then by all means get Survive. My friends and family have no problem with it at all and we enjoy it a lot.

Kingdom Builder is one I particularly enjoy but it is the target of as much hate as love.

Kingsburg, particularly with the expansion is a really good game but there is not a lot of direct conflict in it. You can deny opponents certain resources but that's about it. Very nice looking game too.
 
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Executive Bear
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What about Lords of Waterdeep? It's quite fun and really easy to learn. I would also recommend Belfort another game that is easy to learn but can have some deep strategy especially when you have an interesting mix of guilds that come out!

I enjoy both of these games (Belfort more so) as do the people I play with all of whom are not really gamers
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Alyssa McCain
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I love Survive and everyone I've played with does too. It's hilarious to attack each other's meeples with sea monsters & sharks and it's all in fun.

+1 for Kingsburg and Garden Dice.

I also think Small World is a good gateway for people that already enjoy games like Risk. There is some attacking, but nothing to vicious and it has a lot of replayability.

For more attacking fun, there is always King of Tokyo! A high energy, lively game with big dice, cards, and monsters.

Personally I find TTR to be not very engaging. I'll play it, but it's not one I ever suggest. As for Zooloretto, I've only played it once, but it kind of missed the mark for me.
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Adam Kazimierczak
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I echo the sentiments that there are many other "gateway" games that are far superior to Survive. I mainly play Survive with my kids and rarely if ever bring it out for game night. I really have three problems with it:

-too random
-memorizing meeple numbers is irritating
-drags too long for what it is

 
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Shane Larsen
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My thoughts on Survive are discouraging:

1. It's too random.
2. Decisions are not interesting.
3. It's a nice game disguised as a mean one.
4. It is repetitive and too long.
5. It offers no replayability.

I'll expand on point #3:

I am blown away that so many people consider this a "mean" game. IMO, it's not. It's actually a really friendly game. The reasons for this are that everything potentially "mean" in the game is controlled by the dice. Curt mentioned something about "target-attacking" individuals. But you can't really even do that because it will always require a specific die roll to target someone. Nine times out of ten, a player will roll the dice, the players will study the board for a short few seconds, and it will be obvious what the player should do. Is that mean? Nope. The player who gets attacked might say, "Noooo!" But even he would have to admit that it's the obvious choice. After running into this problem repeatedly, I realized that the game plays itself too much.

A real mean game is when the game allows players complete control of when, where, and at whom he can attack. That's when the real surprises can happen. Survive doesn't give you anything like that.

Like has been mentioned, there were some initial positive impressions when I first got it. But it quickly fell flat in my groups. I got rid of mine after only several plays.

My recommendation is a strong +1 to China. It's a brilliant game with simple rules and fast gameplay. Perfect for your situation.
 
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Dicetown with extension is excellent for 3-6 players.

Santiago is great for 4-5.
 
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Curt Carpenter
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BTW, if you want aggressive, without being rules-heavy, and without being too long in game time, go directly to Domaine. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200.
 
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Amanda Skogberg
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We have survive and love it. It is such an easy game for me and my family to play and to introduce to others. Not too much time to set up and plays in about 30-45 min.

My son and I play together most of the time and we LOVE all the eating of eachothers meeples and with only 10 of each color it can get boring. So to make It more interesting with only two players we each take two colors and then the fun begins.
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Thomas
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I also think Nexus Ops would be a good option if 2-4 works.
 
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Matt Brown
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thedacker wrote:
1. It's too random.
2. Decisions are not interesting.
3. It's a nice game disguised as a mean one.


I would argue that taking these on the more positive side is why it works as a gateway game. The randomness means anybody can win, aka I suck at this game. The lack of decisions makes it easier to newer gamers to get a grasp of what is going on even sooner. The fact that the game goes after everybody lessens the impact of it being mean. It hasn't felt too long to me and we only play it once in a while. No, it isn't a main game, but it works fine for what it is. A better gateway and certainly once the expansion hits next month so it goes to 6 players is Lords of Waterdeep.
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Moe45673
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I think I'll ignore Kingsburg for this application.

Garden Dice has caught my attention, mainly due to the box and the dice component (I love a good dice game yet so many fall flat). Is it a filler (KoT, Escape: Curse of the Temple) or a light boardgame (Lords of Vegas)?

Lords of Waterdeep doesn't have my interest, due to the fact that I'm looking for something new and I've got a happy amount of worker placement already.

Ginkopolis was recommended by a friend with very similar tastes to my own, hence why it has my eye.

Shane, thanks for offering up an explanation as to why Survive might fall flat for some.

Small World I really need to look into. I've seen some people I respect love it and some think it's dull.

Curt, I'll look into Domaine (starting off with if it's still easily available)

Need to look more into Dicetown(with exp) and I'll have a gander at Santiago as well
 
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Rich Charters
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I would not recommend Survive: Escape from Atlantis!. I find it too mean spirited. You do well by killing others and if possible removing them from the board. Also, I don't find any interesting decisions to make.

I played a game with my kids the other night and I thoughtL "this is the last time I'm going to play this game."

I would recommend Stone Age,Lords of Waterdeep, or Ticket to Ride for introducing folks to board games..
 
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David B
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About Kingdom Builder....China scratches the same itch as Kingdom Builder, but China does it much better. I also own Kingdom Builder and I would unload it for cheap if I could.
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