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I never played MTG.

I did play Yugioh for quite a few years though. I kinda lost interest once the game reached break-neck speeds after synchros came out. Before that, however, I appreciated the vast card pool and near endless strategies.

The one thing Yugioh helped to appreciate and understand is Timing.

This answer is twofold. First, timing as in optimal play, and timing as in structure of timing/rulings.

As far as optimal play goes- In yugioh, the game is all about card advantage. By keeping you card advantage above or near your opponent, you can have a wider array of options when you reach a position to truly push your advantage. It taught me patience when faced with a lack of options. This is a big thing in netrunner that many new players miss.

And as far as rulings go. Yugioh is notorious for it's "Spell Speed" system to determine card priority and such. Coming over to netrunner was like saying hello to an old friend.

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Magic: the Gathering, Battletech CCG, On the Edge, Netrunner, The Spoils, WARS, Ophidian 2350, Magi-Nation, Legend of the 5 Rings, Kult, Spycraft, Call of Cthulhu, Warhammer: Invasion, and Lord of the Rings LCG.

Perhaps the one that helped me the most was Battletech, because it had some of the face-down stuff. I never had any of the trap cards, though, so that one doesn't apply too much. I didn't play Netrunner until 2009, and it was probably the 4th customizable card game I ever played. So, yeah, none of them really prepared me for Netrunner.

(The one that is most similar is Spycraft, because there's a lot of hidden-card bluffing; but I played it after Netrunner.)
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Martin Presley
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I played L5R, which taught me the value of meta-dependent cards, when to have 2 or 1 of a card, and how to leverage predictability into victory.
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I watched Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon as a kid, which gave me all the experience I need.

Oh, and it made me want to be the very best, that no one ever was...
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I still call playing a match "dueling".
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I played a little MTG in 1994-95, then the original Netrunner was released in 96. Along with Netrunner, I dabbled in Battletech and Vampire:The Eternal Struggle.
I stayed a Netrunner addict, finding players through the 90's, so it's the original that prepared me for A:NR.
FFG has transformed the game beyond anything I could have imagined. I guess that's why they describe it as :re-imagined".
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I've played a fair number of CCGs over the years. In rough chronological order, counting when I first began playing each game:

Star Wars CCG (the original by Decipher)
Magic: The Gathering
Legend of the Five Rings
Battletech CCG
Deadlands: Doomtown
7th Sea
Netrunner (the original)
Pokemon TCG
A Game of Thrones CCG (before it was turned into an LCG)
The Lord of the Rings TCG
Android: Netrunner
Star Wars LCG

I only played most of these casually. The games I was interested enough in to play in tournaments were:

Star Wars CCG (doesn't really count; I was too young to grasp high level play)
Magic: The Gathering
Legend of the Five Rings
The Lord of the Rings TCG
Android: Netrunner (still frustrated that I was sick for our regionals)

The lessons from each game were different, but a lot of it can be applied to any tournament game. There are always mindset and logistical concerns about tournaments, especially day-long (or longer) tournaments that can become almost as much about endurance as anything else.

Certainly there were tactical lessons about how each game played, and what cards were powerful in a particular game, but those weren't that relevant to Netrunner. Indeed, part of why I loved Netrunner was because it was so different from other CCGs - I didn't understand it already going in.

The most critical lesson, though, is that a player is only as good as his or her regular opponents. A good player can remain a certain level of good after being elevated through practice, but even then regular practice and playtesting is critical to that little extra edge. One wonderful thing about the rise of the internet is that communities are much larger - and a larger community of skilled players who participate in the community will raise the average level of play in the game overall.

It's not all good though. If top players don't participate outside their local group then you get something a lot like L5R: a tournament scene mostly dominated by the same players year after year. The only reason I got rather good is because I did well enough at my first big Kotei tournament to make the top cut out of swiss, and immediately got eliminated by a much better player (who went on to win that Kotei). That one loss at L5R taught me more about tempo and strategic focus than any other match I've ever played, but the vast majority of L5R players never got that experience - and because the online community was mostly made up of those less-experienced players, the general level of play in that game remained almost surprisingly low (as in, I would see players even late in swiss making incredibly basic mistakes time after time). Magic mostly avoids that by publishing tournament decklists and having an absolutely massive community of analysts spread across the web writing about every level of strategy.

I haven't played L5R seriously in years now, but that lesson remains one of the most potent: community is essential to maintaining dynamic competitive play. It's there that I really fear for Netrunner. The game's focus on skill and knowledge are part of why I love it, but that also forms an intimidating barrier to entry for those who didn't get in on the ground floor. That threatens the dynamism of tournament play down the line. Introductory guides, articles on general strategy, tournament analysis - the availability and quality of those materials will determine how exciting tournament level Netrunner will be in years to come.

There are some good signs about the online community, but we won't know the outcome for quite some time.
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M:TG, ONR, Dune, Harry Potter, BtVS, AGoT, SWTCG.

Corbeau wrote:
The lessons from each game were different, but a lot of it can be applied to any tournament game. There are always mindset and logistical concerns about tournaments, especially day-long (or longer) tournaments that can become almost as much about endurance as anything else.


Pretty much this. My first "real" CCG tournament was the M:TG Ice Age prerelease. The only thing I remember about it is being totally oblivious to a key card ability I could've used in my last match to easily win until (literally) days after the event. Lacking any prior tourney experience, I just couldn't do a good enough job keeping up with the board state to play well.

I still get a bit jittery during my first match of a "real" tournament but I don't let it throw me off my game. I know it will pass once I get into the game, so I can ride it out. And keeping my head in the game over long hours comes a lot easier than it once did. I still make errors, of course, but I make fewer and I don't get thrown off for the rest of the game/event by them.
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Played some MTG in middle school and early high school, then dabbled in a couple other things but didn't get seriously into anything else other than Rage. I still have a lot of fondness for that game.

After Rage died I didn't do any ccg/lcg playing until I picked up CoC shortly after it went lcg. Since then I have also played LotR lcg.

I don't think I really learned much from my teenage card game days. I'm still not a super great player of lcgs, but I think about things in a more strategic way now. Back then it was mostly about putting a load of "cool" cards into the deck and seeing what happened.
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This is my first card game, if you discount the old Star Wars CCG (which I bought cards for but I think I only played once with starter decks).

However, I collected basketball cards as a kid and that experience helped to get me playing Netrunner, since I wasn't going to play a game with random card distribution
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Corbeau wrote:
If top players don't participate outside their local group then you get something a lot like L5R: a tournament scene mostly dominated by the same players year after year.


Tournaments are crazy. I just assumed that everybody that played in them would be some kind of high-level player, so I wouldn't even attend until I considered myself above average. I went to my first tournament mainly out of peer pressure. I was really surprised at the variety of skill levels. Many of the players were better than me, but not that much better. Most of the games that I lost I could see where I would've won if I'd done something differently. There were even a few players who were clearly worse than me.

I encourage players not to be intimidated by that scary word "tournament". Don't worry about winning...for your first few tournaments, at least. Just go to have fun and learn. It's really interesting to see the variety of strategies from different metas.
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Only played Middle-Earth: TCG way way back.
And dabbled in M:TG a bit.
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HUGE mid-90's CCG nut. You name the game, I played it.

My main loves were:

Star Trek CCG (became so bloated & convoluted, but was my first CCG, so could never stop)
Star Wars CCG
Deadlands: Doomtown
7th Sea
Vampire (or Jyhad if you prefer)
Lord of the Rings TCG
Shadowrun
On The Edge
WARS TCG
Battletech CCG

and many many more.

Got out of the scene after going off to college, then 6 years slaving for the man.

Then heard the announcement for the re-release of netrunner last April-ish, and that was more than enough to get me back in. I only had the starter deck of the original, but I remembered how much I loved it, not to mention how DIFFERENT it was.

All these games really taught me how to deckbuild. Generally, no matter what the game, I can deckbuild pretty well (being a Math major definitely helps).

Most important thing I learned, and the only advice I can give anyone getting into this or any other card game for the matter, is to simply play. All the blogs, all the strategy articles, all the everything is all well and good. But the only way to get good (or heck, even half-way decent) is to play as much as possible, against as many different people as possible.

This is the only way to learn how to master your deck. Which after playing for awhile, becomes much more important than actually mastering the game.

Great thread by the way.
 
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This game in no way helped me, because it was terrible, but I just had to bring it up for its terribleness:

SPELLFIRE!
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lluluien wrote:
This game in no way helped me, because it was terrible, but I just had to bring it up for its terribleness:

SPELLFIRE!


I still have my Spellfire Reference Guide. And I actually PAID MONEY for it! lol
 
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I played MTG from 1995 to 2001 as my main card game. I started playing MTG again in 2011. Along the way I dabbled in Middle Earth, Star Wars (Decipher), Netrunner, Vampire the Eternal Struggle, Legend of the Five Rings, Marvel Overpower and Redemption.

Of the whole lot above, besides MTG, the one that made an impression on me the most was Netrunner. It was fun, tense and the game play was truly unique for that era. In fact, when I first played monopoly deal, the first thing I said was "this action taking mechanic reminds me a little of Netrunner", that was year's before A:NR made its debut.

The game I played most was MTG. There are two eras in my MTG playing life, the 1995 to 2001 era and 2011 to the present. Both have influenced my play style differently.

In the good old days, there was the idea of card advantage, and that taught me that some kind of card drawing engine was vital in most card games. Card drawing in A:NR isn't quite as premium as in MTG, Diesel and Anonymous Tip don't have the same kind of power as their counterpart in MTG. So when I played A:NR, the idea of gaining some kind of economic advantage over your opponent came up.

For A:NR, that idea is translated loosely into the idea of click-efficiency, example, you don't really want to test run for a Magnum Opus on your last click. In A:NR, you are really trying to get the most out of each click rather than the most out of each card.

When I got back into MTG two years back, there was the (new to me) concept of tempo. Playing cards to build up momentum to overrun your opponent, or playing cards to disrupt your opponent's momentum. The best idea I can translate that to in A:NR is the recent idea of work compression, which I'm still trying to get the hang of.

At the end of the day, these concepts are various ways of managing and optimizing economy.
 
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Corbeau wrote:
I haven't played L5R seriously in years now, but that lesson remains one of the most potent: community is essential to maintaining dynamic competitive play. It's there that I really fear for Netrunner. The game's focus on skill and knowledge are part of why I love it, but that also forms an intimidating barrier to entry for those who didn't get in on the ground floor. That threatens the dynamism of tournament play down the line. Introductory guides, articles on general strategy, tournament analysis - the availability and quality of those materials will determine how exciting tournament level Netrunner will be in years to come.

There are some good signs about the online community, but we won't know the outcome for quite some time.


We need to be careful to not be our own worst enemies in this regard.

I used to write a series called "This Just In!" on cardgamedb for NBN faction play, and my initial article got split into 3 because of all the unanimous feedback I got about the article being too long. All of that stuff needed to be said from the standpoint of insuring a lowest common denominator of understanding among players before I moved on to more expert topics. When I released these articles though, the universal feedback that I got was that the strategy elements weren't useful because they were introductory; interest of the people reading them tapered off, and then mine predictably followed suit. There's still plenty to say, but if no one claims any interest in reading a fully-qualified strategy guide that explains concepts from start to finish and readers want to just skip to the punchline each time, then it's a lot easier for me to just post here on the forums whenever I've got something I'd like to say.

This is one of those instances where people should be careful what they wish for. If we think the Netrunner community needs introductory strategy material, we shouldn't discourage writers from creating it - that happens a lot around here, not just with my series. Similarly, for any new players in the community that are interested in this kind of material, you need to be sure to SPEAK UP! A lot of the motivation for creating strategy material for the community comes from knowing people out there are reading and enjoying it; something so simple as a comment of "thanks; good read!" goes a long way towards encouraging continuing development of that material.
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Dave Kudzma
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Magic: The Gathering
Mage Knight
Dreamblade
Call of Cthulhu: The Card Game
A Game of Thrones: The Card Game
Warhammer: Invasion
The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game
Android: Netrunner
Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game
Star Wars: The Card Game

In that order.

Edit:

How have they helped me with Netrunner? I think the biggest thing is patience and timing.
 
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lluluien wrote:
Corbeau wrote:
I haven't played L5R seriously in years now, but that lesson remains one of the most potent: community is essential to maintaining dynamic competitive play. It's there that I really fear for Netrunner. The game's focus on skill and knowledge are part of why I love it, but that also forms an intimidating barrier to entry for those who didn't get in on the ground floor. That threatens the dynamism of tournament play down the line. Introductory guides, articles on general strategy, tournament analysis - the availability and quality of those materials will determine how exciting tournament level Netrunner will be in years to come.

There are some good signs about the online community, but we won't know the outcome for quite some time.


We need to be careful to not be our own worst enemies in this regard.

I used to write a series called "This Just In!" on cardgamedb for NBN faction play, and my initial article got split into 3 because of all the unanimous feedback I got about the article being too long. All of that stuff needed to be said from the standpoint of insuring a lowest common denominator of understanding among players before I moved on to more expert topics. When I released these articles though, the universal feedback that I got was that the strategy elements weren't useful because they were introductory; interest of the people reading them tapered off, and then mine predictably followed suit. There's still plenty to say, but if no one claims any interest in reading a fully-qualified strategy guide that explains concepts from start to finish and readers want to just skip to the punchline each time, then it's a lot easier for me to just post here on the forums whenever I've got something I'd like to say.

This is one of those instances where people should be careful what they wish for. If we think the Netrunner community needs introductory strategy material, we shouldn't discourage writers from creating it - that happens a lot around here, not just with my series. Similarly, for any new players in the community that are interested in this kind of material, you need to be sure to SPEAK UP! A lot of the motivation for creating strategy material for the community comes from knowing people out there are reading and enjoying it; something so simple as a comment of "thanks; good read!" goes a long way towards encouraging continuing development of that material.


Oh yeah that reminds me I haven't read the cardgamedb articles in a while...

It's quite difficult to find a balance between talking to the overloaded overplayers and the beginners. I think it's important to prime whatever article you create with the correct expectations - but then people think they're pros when they're noobs and vice versa too...

It's a tough one But I agree that a good insightful read is rare, as it should be, I guess.
 
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lluluien wrote:

We need to be careful to not be our own worst enemies in this regard.

I used to write a series called "This Just In!" on cardgamedb for NBN faction play, and my initial article got split into 3 because of all the unanimous feedback I got about the article being too long. All of that stuff needed to be said from the standpoint of insuring a lowest common denominator of understanding among players before I moved on to more expert topics. When I released these articles though, the universal feedback that I got was that the strategy elements weren't useful because they were introductory; interest of the people reading them tapered off, and then mine predictably followed suit. There's still plenty to say, but if no one claims any interest in reading a fully-qualified strategy guide that explains concepts from start to finish and readers want to just skip to the punchline each time, then it's a lot easier for me to just post here on the forums whenever I've got something I'd like to say.

This is one of those instances where people should be careful what they wish for. If we think the Netrunner community needs introductory strategy material, we shouldn't discourage writers from creating it - that happens a lot around here, not just with my series. Similarly, for any new players in the community that are interested in this kind of material, you need to be sure to SPEAK UP! A lot of the motivation for creating strategy material for the community comes from knowing people out there are reading and enjoying it; something so simple as a comment of "thanks; good read!" goes a long way towards encouraging continuing development of that material.


I consider myself an advanced beginner, I understand the basics but still make boneheaded mistakes. I love the articles on the basics so I can review them. So, put my vote in for more introductory articles.
 
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DubiousYak wrote:
I consider myself an advanced beginner, I understand the basics but still make boneheaded mistakes. I love the articles on the basics so I can review them. So, put my vote in for more introductory articles.


Thanks for the feedback! I think I know just the thing for my next article then, because there's been a couple little instances where it has come up the past few days - how to best take advantage of a Private Security Force lock. The strategy involved in this isn't difficult to understand, but there are several considerations that I think often go overlooked that can make the strategy quite a bit more effective, so I think it would make a good introductory article. I'll try to get it up by the end of the week.
 
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I've played Warhammer: Invasion as far as LCG/CCGs go.

Not a direct answer to your question, but the game that most greatly informs my Netrunner play is actually chess. I don't know how many ANR players out there have studied chess, but there are many, many similarities in the play that have helped me tremendously.

Concepts such as tempo, concentration of force in the attack, and enforcing your plan all apply directly to the game. Tournament experience in any game is fairly universal, so there's that too. Perhaps someday I'll expand on some of these ideas in a post...




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Magi-Nation. I loved that game. Really fun deck building and gameplay. Lots of chances for comebacks!
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CD Harris
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lluluien wrote:
I used to write a series called "This Just In!" on cardgamedb for NBN faction play, and my initial article got split into 3 because of all the unanimous feedback I got about the article being too long. All of that stuff needed to be said from the standpoint of insuring a lowest common denominator of understanding among players before I moved on to more expert topics. When I released these articles though, the universal feedback that I got was that the strategy elements weren't useful because they were introductory; interest of the people reading them tapered off, and then mine predictably followed suit. There's still plenty to say, but if no one claims any interest in reading a fully-qualified strategy guide that explains concepts from start to finish and readers want to just skip to the punchline each time, then it's a lot easier for me to just post here on the forums whenever I've got something I'd like to say.

This is one of those instances where people should be careful what they wish for. If we think the Netrunner community needs introductory strategy material, we shouldn't discourage writers from creating it - that happens a lot around here, not just with my series. Similarly, for any new players in the community that are interested in this kind of material, you need to be sure to SPEAK UP! A lot of the motivation for creating strategy material for the community comes from knowing people out there are reading and enjoying it; something so simple as a comment of "thanks; good read!" goes a long way towards encouraging continuing development of that material.


FTR, the overall value of CGDB's A:NR articles isn't nearly as high without your contributions. I, for one, would have been happy to read the fully-fleshed out versions. I'm glad you still do it that way here.
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