Dwayne Hendrickson
United States
Oklahoma City
Oklahoma
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
OK, here ya go.

Scenario: House was built in 1973. The back patio has a roof that is extended off of the roofline. The patio, concrete, is 10x20, supported on two sides by the house. One corner is supported by a 4x4 painted post. Another painted 4x4 post is in the middle of the long leg of the roof.

The other day I stumbled against the post in the middle and the dang thing popped loose. The bottom had rotted slightly from water damage but what amazed me is that it was not tied in or secured to the concrete patio, nor was it fastened at the top. The ceiling of our patio is plywood and this post was just wedged in there between the concrete and the plywood.

Currently: I have purchased two cedar 8ft 4x4s. I have painted them with Kilz and a few coats of exterior paint. We normally have standing water on our patio as it runs off so I am concerned about putting the posts back so they are in direct contact with the concrete.

I do not know how the corner post is tied in, if at all, but my plan is to replace both posts.

Question:
Do I replace the posts, tying them in at the top but not on the bottom and just let them rot for the next 40 years?

Do I use raised galvanized feet to tie in to the concrete? I have seen some warnings that the galvanized feet will rust and you end up replacing them. How hard is it to paint the galvanized metal?

Any good suggestions? has anyone else handled something like this?
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gone C. Profile
msg tools
Avatar
If you're in Marin County and it's a 2 bed, 1 bath on the market in the high $700,000s, I understand the accepted practice is to just slap some paint on the old rotten posts.

(Even though gravity may have been your friend so far, I would definitely tie them in on both the top & bottom. Instead of galvanized feet, you could set them on some small paving stone, but that may complicate the whole tying-them-in thing. Maybe you could set them over a bolt running vertically through the paving stone into the concrete? No idea what hardware exists for anchoring vertical posts to concrete, but you know it's a problem someone has a part for.)
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott B
United States
Redmond
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
I came here to post something along the lines of "hope kuhrusty doesn't offer any advice." I was too late.
16 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Hedke
United States
Gibraltar
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Most problems can be solved with either a stiff drink, a bowel movement, or a bullet.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Replace it exactly as it was and don't worry about it for another 40 years.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
♬♪♪ ♫ ♩ ♫♫♪ ♩♬♪ ♫
Australia
MURRUMBEENA
Victoria
flag msg tools
badge
All reality is a game. Physics at its most fundamental, the very fabric of our universe, results directly from the interaction of certain fairly simple rules, and chance... (Iain Banks)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm feeling quiet pride that I actually know something about this...

Go with galvanised brackets. They are easy to fit in place (Dyna-bolt into the concrete) and should be coated with anti-rust paint before installation. Painting over the rust-proofing is generally not a good idea.
In Australia we don't have to worry about snow, but many houses are exposed to salt from sea-spray. Gal-iron should be OK for 40+ years.
If you want to spend a lot more money on the brackets, they are also available powder-coated.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Vincent
United States
Ridgefield
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You could just let it sit on the ground, but then itd be better to use pressure treated lumber rated for ground contact. Cedar will last a while, but it will still rot.

Use these: Simpson Strong ties. You'll need a hammer drill with 5/8" masonry bit to put a hole in the slab. The post sits on top of this about an inch off the ground, which keeps it out of the water.

Galvanized metal wont rust, at least as long as the galvanization isn't damaged. Rather than try to paint the metal, it's easier to disguise it. You can build a little box over it like this:



That's just a 2x6 with mitered corners. If the box starts to rot, you can take it apart and just replace that part.

I just used this method to build a pergola a few weeks ago.

9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chaddyboy
United States
Olathe
Kansas
flag msg tools
admin
designer
Bloooooop.
badge
Bluuuuuurp.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've also seen anchors that keep the wood 1/4" above whatever surface you're putting the post on. So, that would keep the post anchored while also keeping the bottom of the post off the surface, preventing it from wicking any moisture up. Like others have said, you'd be bolting the bracket into the concrete and then attaching the post to the bracket.

Here's what I'm talking about:
http://www.mudsupply.com/Simpson_Strong_Tie_ABU44_4x4_Stando...

If you don't like the metal showing, you can nail some decorative trim over it.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Vincent
United States
Ridgefield
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
kuhrusty wrote:
If you're in Marin County and it's a 2 bed, 1 bath on the market in the high $700,000s,


Sounds like a dump.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hammock Backpacker
United States
Columbus
Ohio
flag msg tools
Hot Coffee...Mmmmmm
badge
Go Take A Hike!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I just replaced a porch railing at my house and did everything in TimberTech but the posts sit an inch off the ground using standoffs:



You'll need a masonry bit to drill and then anchor the standoffs into the patio but then the 4x4 posts sit on the little block above the we area.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
I awoke this morning to the first wet dream I've experienced in years. I've really got to get this old bladder-infected cat to the vet.
United States
Kansas City
Missouri
flag msg tools
badge
I think that all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's too bad you've already painted the cedar posts, otherwise you could return them. Cedar -- despite what some will tell you with a straight face -- is NOT suitable for exterior usage. The best use for cedar is lining closet walls for natural pest repellant, or making a chest for your daughter's trousseau.

I am currently in the process of replacing dozens of rotted cedar planks and posts from a 30-year-old deck at my SIL's house. Her father-in-law and I are cutting out the rotted cedar boards (which were nailed in place) and replacing them with pressure-treated yellow pine secured by long screws. The deck has two gazebos on it (one square and one octagonal), and some of the cedar side planking and roof slats on those will have to be removed and replaced.

We've been on the job for two weeks now and are about 3/4 done. Once all the rotted cedar is replaced we'll have to go back and cover the remaining cedar with thick paint to fill the cracks and knotholes in the hope of preserving what is still there. Then we'll paint everything the same color so it all matches.

If it wasn't for the gazebos I would have suggested replacing the entire deck -- it would have been simpler, and sturdier in the long run, since the rest of the cedar will have rotted enough to need be replaced in a few years anyway.*

My advice: NEVER use cedar for external structures or support of any type.


*EDIT: All this is in preparation for my SIL to put the house on the market, hopefully at the end of August. The eventual new owners will have to deal with the continuing deterioration of the cedar deck; meanwhile we are doing our best to spruce** it up, and make it sturdy enough to last a couple of years past the sale date.

**See what I did there?
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dwayne Hendrickson
United States
Oklahoma City
Oklahoma
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
According to studies by the University of Chicago in the mid 70's, cut cedar has NO properties that repel moths or other critters. They reason cedar chests work is because they are a closed box.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
I awoke this morning to the first wet dream I've experienced in years. I've really got to get this old bladder-infected cat to the vet.
United States
Kansas City
Missouri
flag msg tools
badge
I think that all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
okiedokie wrote:
According to studies by the University of Chicago in the mid 70's, cut cedar has NO properties that repel moths or other critters. They reason cedar chests work is because they are a closed box.


I stand corrected.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dwayne Hendrickson
United States
Oklahoma City
Oklahoma
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
and you probably got some low grade cedar. High quality non treated cedar and redwood are equal in bug/rot resistance as other pressure treated lumbers, at least according to some various forestry/lumber sights I found.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
I awoke this morning to the first wet dream I've experienced in years. I've really got to get this old bladder-infected cat to the vet.
United States
Kansas City
Missouri
flag msg tools
badge
I think that all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
okiedokie wrote:
and you probably got some low grade cedar. High quality non treated cedar and redwood are equal in bug/rot resistance as other pressure treated lumbers, at least according to some various forestry/lumber sights I found.


Quite possibly. The deck was built 30+ years ago by a company that specialized in them. I suspect the lumber was not the highest grade, since using lower grade wood increases the bottom line. I also don't think pressure-treating was widespread back then -- they relied on the homeowner renewing the water-repellent coating once or twice a year. At some point someone painted the deck and gazebos an ugly ochre color, and apparently assumed the paint would be enough. (The color is called "cedartone" but resembles stuff I found in my kids' diapers more than any wood color I've ever seen.)

So, her father-in-law and I are doing our best to correct several years of neglect. We should finish replacing the last of the rotted wood today, then we can start power-washing the deck in preparation for repainting.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.