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Subject: Chapter Four: Can parties move to same tile? rss

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Graham Martin
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We had one group of mice clear the crystal chambers very quickly while the other ended up with rats, a spider and a centipede all out at once and one mouse captured.

We read and re-read the rules and it doesn't chnage the ability of a party of mice to move backwards through tiles. As such, we decided the successful party could backtrack to help otu the party in trouble.

We still treated them as separate parties, but they were all on the same tile.

Is this OK? I ask because of the following:

After the fighting was over, the King's chamber party wanted to explore to the next tile. What happens? Do they have to wait till the crystal chamber party moves off of the tile before they can explore since exploring king's chambers requires a tile flip which can't be done if the other party remains?
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Jerry Hawthorne
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Grahamers2002 wrote:
We had one group of mice clear the crystal chambers very quickly while the other ended up with rats, a spider and a centipede all out at once and one mouse captured.

We read and re-read the rules and it doesn't chnage the ability of a party of mice to move backwards through tiles. As such, we decided the successful party could backtrack to help otu the party in trouble.

We still treated them as separate parties, but they were all on the same tile.

Is this OK? I ask because of the following:

After the fighting was over, the King's chamber party wanted to explore to the next tile. What happens? Do they have to wait till the crystal chamber party moves off of the tile before they can explore since exploring king's chambers requires a tile flip which can't be done if the other party remains?
the chapter is intended for the parties to remain separate until the final tile. We never intended for a party to backtrack and so never tested it that way.
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nobeerblues wrote:
Grahamers2002 wrote:
We had one group of mice clear the crystal chambers very quickly while the other ended up with rats, a spider and a centipede all out at once and one mouse captured.

We read and re-read the rules and it doesn't chnage the ability of a party of mice to move backwards through tiles. As such, we decided the successful party could backtrack to help otu the party in trouble.

We still treated them as separate parties, but they were all on the same tile.

Is this OK? I ask because of the following:

After the fighting was over, the King's chamber party wanted to explore to the next tile. What happens? Do they have to wait till the crystal chamber party moves off of the tile before they can explore since exploring king's chambers requires a tile flip which can't be done if the other party remains?
the chapter is intended for the parties to remain separate until the final tile. We never intended for a party to backtrack and so never tested it that way.

We did backtrack and it worked pretty well. We figured it was thematic enough knowing that we'd cleared the king's chamber and could safely scamper through the empty dining room to catch up and that they would know that they were headed for trouble in the furnace room, so we went for it and it worked well!
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I've played this chapter twice, and while I like the idea of one party backtracking, I found the experience of one party getting beat up in the Forge and then the other party arriving a few turns later to save them more exhilarating, especially if different players are playing on the different parties. It's like Chapter 2, where there's a sense of urgency to hurry up.
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Graham Martin
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TheLabRat wrote:
I've played this chapter twice, and while I like the idea of one party backtracking, I found the experience of one party getting beat up in the Forge and then the other party arriving a few turns later to save them more exhilarating, especially if different players are playing on the different parties. It's like Chapter 2, where there's a sense of urgency to hurry up.


Here, our problem was that the first group was going to all get captured in the King's Chambers if the 2nd group didn't backtrack to save their cheese, so to speak, which, if we aren't allowed to backtrack, means end of game.

Hence, the desire to go rescue the mice.
 
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Graham Martin
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nobeerblues wrote:
the chapter is intended for the parties to remain separate until the final tile. We never intended for a party to backtrack and so never tested it that way.


Thanks so much for the feedback. I value your participation on these boards.

As some input for your next game, my main gripe about Mice and Mystic (a small one) is that the rules are too "loosey goosey."

Specifically, 1) they are not comprehensive, such as in this instance; and 2) there is a lot of "decide for yourself what the rule is" sentiment (e.g., line of sight rules.)

I appreciate that many people like this (especially kids, an audience of this game) and I am not asking your to change it. I only ask that many gamers prefer all of the rules spelled out so they know under which circumstances the game was designed and tested and so that when people compare results/strategies we can know we are comparing apples to apples.

Maybe write the next rule book with the explicit rules and flag the ones you are flexible on?
 
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Jerry Hawthorne
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Thanks! I do value the input for sure!
 
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Rich Moore
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Of course you can...it was the only way I could succeed at this Chapter. Except I had Collin join Nez in the pipes instead of the other way around.
 
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Grahamers2002 wrote:
nobeerblues wrote:
the chapter is intended for the parties to remain separate until the final tile. We never intended for a party to backtrack and so never tested it that way.


Thanks so much for the feedback. I value your participation on these boards.

As some input for your next game, my main gripe about Mice and Mystic (a small one) is that the rules are too "loosey goosey."

Specifically, 1) they are not comprehensive, such as in this instance; and 2) there is a lot of "decide for yourself what the rule is" sentiment (e.g., line of sight rules.)

I appreciate that many people like this (especially kids, an audience of this game) and I am not asking your to change it. I only ask that many gamers prefer all of the rules spelled out so they know under which circumstances the game was designed and tested and so that when people compare results/strategies we can know we are comparing apples to apples.

Maybe write the next rule book with the explicit rules and flag the ones you are flexible on?
And many people (especially grown ups, part of the audience for this game) like to able to make decisions for themselves and to not be tied down by micro-rulings; preferring to be treated as thinking people, capable of working things out for themselves and playing within the "spirit" of the game rather than the rule of rules lawyers. In my experience, with co-op games in this style, rigid rule sets are unnecessary because the need to prevent cheating and rules exploitation by one player to gain advantage over another simply isn't there. You can collectively decide how you want to proceed and then do so. The point being to have fun with the contents of the box that you purchased.

A game like M&M would die under the weight of rules that you seem to want it would turn into a tedious rules slog with rulers, cones of fire and all that stuff that makes wargames what they are instead of a free-flowing story-telling adventure game with a very wide appeal.
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