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Android: Netrunner» Forums » Rules

Subject: Scavenge: Trash and Return the Same Program? rss

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Matt M
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This is a timing question. Scavenge has an additional cost of "trash an installed program." My question is, is the program you trashed moved to the heap before you choose which program to bring back? I.e. can I trash an installed Femme Fatale, choose to bring it back with Scavenge, and therefore gain the ability to "move" the Femme Fatale token?

If the above is true, would the "return to top of stack" condition from Test Run still apply if I test Run -> Scavenge a program, assuming I return the same physical card to play?
 
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Peter Hall
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Seriously was just about to search the forums for this exact set of questions... weird.
 
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Steven Tu
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Yes, right now it seems you can indeed Scavenge a Femme and install the same Femme to target another program.
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Chris Wood
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1) Still up for debate. Based on the separation of section one from section 2, i'd assume that yes you can install the trashed program

2) in the new faq they made clear that when a card leaves play and comes back it is a different instance of it, so I would assume if you test run Femme, then scavenge her and re-install her Test Run would not remove it from play (No matter how many are in the heap)

But that's just my take on it, i'm sure someone already has sent a question off or will, so we'll see.
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Daniel D
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Costs always happen prior to effects resolving (otherwise you could play Sure Gamble with 0 credits), so yes you can trash an installed Femme and return the same one to play.

For the Test Run question, once a program is uninstalled that instance of the program no longer exists. If you install the same card from the heap, the game still sees it as a separate instance, therefore Test Run doesn't see it as the card it found from the Stack/Heap and doesn't return it to the stack.

EDIT: Double ninja'd? Amazing...
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Kevin Jones
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KestrelM1 wrote:
This is a timing question. Scavenge has an additional cost of "trash an installed program." My question is, is the program you trashed moved to the heap before you choose which program to bring back? I.e. can I trash an installed Femme Fatale, choose to bring it back with Scavenge, and therefore gain the ability to "move" the Femme Fatale token?

If the above is true, would the "return to top of stack" condition from Test Run still apply if I test Run -> Scavenge a program, assuming there are no other copies in the Heap?

To the first set of questions, I think that you can, theoretically, reinstall the same program in this fashion. There are few programs you'd want to do this for (Femme Fetale and Atman at the moment), but I think since the cost has to be paid first, you could reinstall the program and get a new trigger.

To the second set, I don't see how it can apply. Test Run is separate from Scavenge, meaning they can't run at the same time. So you either Test Run a program, or Scavenge it. Whichever one you used to install the program with applies, ie. top of the grip for Test Run or discounted for Scavenge.
 
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Aaron Smith
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Rognik wrote:


To the second set, I don't see how it can apply. Test Run is separate from Scavenge, meaning they can't run at the same time. So you either Test Run a program, or Scavenge it. Whichever one you used to install the program with applies, ie. top of the grip for Test Run or discounted for Scavenge.


It could apply like this:
Play Test run and pay 3 credits to install Femme Fatale.
Play Scavenge, trashing that Femme Fatale as part of the cost, and then (using the ability of Scavenge) retrieve Femme from your heap and install it for 0 credits.

Tada! You've just installed Femme Fatale for only 3 credits.

Edit: And if you're playing Exile, you'd draw a card as well. TWO cards if you used Test Run to pull that Femme out of your heap to begin with....
 
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El-ad David Amir
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KestrelM1 wrote:
...is the program you trashed moved to the heap before you choose which program to bring back? I.e. can I trash an installed Femme Fatale, choose to bring it back with Scavenge, and therefore gain the ability to "move" the Femme Fatale token?

Yes.

You can also use this to "reset" Imp tokens, or to move an installed program into Dinosaurus. Plus a bunch of other cool tricks.

KestrelM1 wrote:
If the above is true, would the "return to top of stack" condition from Test Run still apply if I test Run -> Scavenge a program, assuming I return the same physical card to play?

No, the return to stack no longer applies. The program stays after you Scavenge it.
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TK Number 3
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IirionClaus wrote:
You can also use this to "reset" Imp tokens, or to move an installed program into Dinosaurus. Plus a bunch of other cool tricks.


It also allows you to use Imp twice in one turn. Say the corp has a Biotic Labour on top of R&D and SanSan in a server. Install Imp, run on R&D to trash with Imp. Scavenge Imp, run on server to trash SanSan with Imp. Not as common as moving the Femme target, but still helpful.
 
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Brian H
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Has anyone actually sent this in as a question to Lukas? I'm interested in a verification of what people are saying if nothing else.
 
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El-ad David Amir
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MavericK96 wrote:
Has anyone actually sent this in as a question to Lukas? I'm interested in a verification of what people are saying if nothing else.

This has been confirmed by Lukas.
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Dirk Tebben
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There's really no other way it could possibly work without errata'ing either Scavenge or the rulebook.
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Ben Finkel
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IirionClaus wrote:
MavericK96 wrote:
Has anyone actually sent this in as a question to Lukas? I'm interested in a verification of what people are saying if nothing else.

This has been confirmed by Lukas.


Ah? I hadn't seen this; the only Lukas correspondence about C&C I've seen has been for the Great Tyr's Hand War.
 
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El-ad David Amir
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Azeltir wrote:
Ah? I hadn't seen this; the only Lukas correspondence about C&C I've seen has been for the Great Tyr's Hand War.

And yet it was confirmed by Lukas
 
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Steven Tu
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IirionClaus wrote:
Azeltir wrote:
Ah? I hadn't seen this; the only Lukas correspondence about C&C I've seen has been for the Great Tyr's Hand War.

And yet it was confirmed by Lukas


You mean over coffee at lunch time?
 
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El-ad David Amir
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Tuism wrote:
You mean over coffee at lunch time?

*laughing* via plain ol' email
 
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Brian Moore
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IirionClaus wrote:
Tuism wrote:
You mean over coffee at lunch time?

*laughing* via plain ol' email


I think the point was perhaps you could actually post the response or link to the thread in question where it is quoted. Granted I don't feel you're being dishonest and I think the ruling makes sense, but clearly people have been looking for more to substantiate your claim than "I said it's true". When it comes to rulings people want the source.
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Steven Tu
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Niil945 wrote:
IirionClaus wrote:
Tuism wrote:
You mean over coffee at lunch time?

*laughing* via plain ol' email


I think the point was perhaps you could actually post the response or link to the thread in question where it is quoted. Granted I don't feel you're being dishonest and I think the ruling makes sense, but clearly people have been looking for more to substantiate your claim than "I said it's true". When it comes to rulings people want the source.


That wasn't *my* point, but sure, you may ask for the actual ver batim documentation
 
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Brian Moore
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Tuism wrote:
That wasn't *my* point, but sure, you may ask for the actual ver batim documentation


I guess your post was a joke I didn't get the reference to. No worries, I was more referring to the thread in general. Posting the same thing 3 times isn't really meaningful, especially when it's "Lukas said X" when the email could just be quoted. Also it has the added benefit of being cited in the compilation threads that folks put together of post faq rulings. I haven't seen anything for Scavenge personally and thought if it could be cited maybe we could get it tagged therein.
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Brian Moore
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Just in case the op is watching this thread instead of the other one that Tu made where we're compiling stuff.

Quote:
Brian,

Thanks for the question. Yes, you can trash a program and then install that program from your heap. Hope that helps,

--
Lukas Litzsinger
Game Designer
Fantasy Flight Games
llitzsinger@fantasyflightgames.com
--
Rule Question:
Hi Lukas,

Pretty straightforward question here, just looking to get a confirmation when you have a moment. Scavenge says as an additional cost to trash a program. Can the same card that is used to pay the additional cost then be returned to play when the effect resolves, effectively allowing a Femme to be 'target swapped'? Thanks!
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