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Subject: [deck] Excalibur - a Kit ICE destruction deck rss

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I'm trying to build a deck that makes the most use of Kit's power:

So I'm thinking that some key cards are:
- Escher: re-arrange ICE so that first ICE is a sentry/wall
- Tinkering: make any ICE a Code Gate for a whole turn
- Gordian Blade: its strength boost lasts the entire run, so use of Tinkering or Escher can make cost-efficient runs
- Personal Touch: You're going to be swinging that Gordian Blade a lot, so better to up its strength permanently than pay every run
- Parasite: destroying Sentries and Barriers, which plays into efficient runs and also relying on Gordian Blade. Some new Clone Chips permit recursion
- Atman: Since weenie ICE like Chimera or Ice Wall could ruin your day, a 0-strength Atman is a necessary backup plan to take care of everything else you hit, as long as you bring along...
- Datasucker and Helpful AI: Helpful AI boosts the strength of Atman "on the fly", and Datasuckers can sap ICE for Atman. Or (better yet) it can hasten a death via Parasite.
- Self-Modifying Code: this tutors for programs like Crescentus (after breaking expensive ICE) or Deus X (if you facecheck something really evil while keeping pressure on the corp)

Some of that stuff that isn't essential early, but I'd like them on the table by mid-game. So Personal Workshop lets all that bake in the background while the pressure is kept on. Here is the tentative deck list:

Rielle "Kit" Peddler

Economy
2 Aesop's Pawnshop
3 Armitage Codebusting
2 Daily Casts
2 Diesel
1 2 Kati Jones
2 Personal Workshop
3 Sure Gamble

Ice Destruction
2 Clone Chip
2 Crescentus
1 Kraken
3 Parasite [6 influence]
1 Grimoire [2 influence]

Defense
1 Deus X
1 Dyson Mem Chip
1 Net Shield

General Running
2 Atman
2 Datasucker [2 influence]
2 1 Escher
3 Gordian Blade
2 1 The Helpful AI
3 Indexing
3 Self-modifying Code
2 Tinkering
3 Personal Touch
3 Lockpick

What am I missing? What there looks out of place?

[edit: tweaked to add in Grimoire & another Datasucker]
[August tweaks to add more economy]
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Guido Gloor
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I'm thinking of an ICE destruction deck myself, and to be honest the first thing I'd add would be three Kraken alongside three Parasite. What were your thoughts for only adding one?

Also, I'm a bit of a newbie when it comes to Kati Jones - is adding three of her for making certain one of them will show up early a bad idea?
 
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haslo wrote:
I'm thinking of an ICE destruction deck myself, and to be honest the first thing I'd add would be three Kraken alongside three Parasite. What were your thoughts for only adding one?

Also, I'm a bit of a newbie when it comes to Kati Jones - is adding three of her for making certain one of them will show up early a bad idea?
I used to run a Criminal ICE destruction deck with 3 copies of Kraken. Invariably I would have multiple copies choking up my hand. I found that a single one is great to have in hand for the one or two times in the game when you 1)steal an agenda 2)have a click remaining 3)also have the credits to play Kraken.

As for Kati Jones, I think 1-of is just fine. Like Kraken, it's not a vital card to teh build. She is vulnerable to trace & trash. I see her as a late-game card that provides a huge reward for a big investment. This deck is focused on constant pressure and economic efficiency.
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How bout Forged activation orders?
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dimsumboy wrote:
How bout Forged activation orders?
It is a good option and also useful as a cheap ICE exposure. But I'm reluctant to add it due to Kit's 10-influence ceiling and the fact this deck doesn't have any way to drain Corp credits.
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I think Parasite is a nice complement to Kit/Blade. I'm not as sure about Atman; it does work with Parasite, but it creates some MU issues by forcing Datasucker. You're basically running a full rig of Blade/Atman/Datasucker/1 Parasite, meaning that Self-Mod Code has to get one of your first two programs.

I would probably run the following as my core breaking package:

3x Gordian Blade
1x Crypsis
2x Femme Fatale (2 influence)
2x Parasite (4 influence)

2x Grimoire (4 influence)

With Test Runs and Scavenging, you can pull back Parasites wherever you need them (and get them initially with Self-Modifying Code). All this stuff works great with Femme as well, so you have answers for little ICE and big ICE. You'll also want some random other Scavenging fodder; Chakanas/Deep Thought, Sahasrara, whatever. Or you could just stick with Clone Chips and Test Run for Femme as needed.

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I agree on the Parasites; very strong in this theme of deck. Combined with Test Run and Scavenge, and they can be more impacting than Kraken.
 
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dangerouslycheesy wrote:
I think Parasite is a nice complement to Kit/Blade. I'm not as sure about Atman; it does work with Parasite, but it creates some MU issues by forcing Datasucker. You're basically running a full rig of Blade/Atman/Datasucker/1 Parasite, meaning that Self-Mod Code has to get one of your first two programs.

I would probably run the following as my core breaking package:
3x Gordian Blade
1x Crypsis
2x Femme Fatale (2 influence)
2x Parasite (4 influence)
2x Grimoire (4 influence)

With Test Runs and Scavenging, you can pull back Parasites wherever you need them (and get them initially with Self-Modifying Code). All this stuff works great with Femme as well, so you have answers for little ICE and big ICE. You'll also want some random other Scavenging fodder; Chakanas/Deep Thought, Sahasrara, whatever. Or you could just stick with Clone Chips and Test Run for Femme as needed.


Test Run-Scavenge is a great combo, but maybe not for this deck. There's no Scavenging fodder to begin with, and I feel that Scavenge doesn't have as many synergies as staying with Datasucker. Datasucker is a great econ card in its own right. And it plays into the 3 Parasites and also the Atman backup breaker.

Wouldn't Scavenge-Test Run work better to bring something expensive like Yog on the table?

I threw in 2 mem chips to account for extra MU/link as the game develops, and there's Personal Workshop so they drip into play without wasting real credits.
 
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also: this deck has room for a console. Would it do better with Grimoire (2 influence to help Datasucker & Parasite)?

Or Desperado (3 influence to help the economy)?
 
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Ice destruction is going to be huge once Reina Roja hits. She's going to outsource Cortez Chips and Forged , maybe with a snitch in there just so she knows what she can pop chips on.

Along with Xanadu and Rook , I hope you potentially like paying 7 credits to rez an ice wall... with one cortez chip.

As for Kit doing it... I think it's somewhat out of place just because all of the ice destruction is from out of faction , minus Kraken. With 10 influence to work with , she really can't get all the tools to do it well.

I'd stick to tempo control with her. It's what she's best at.
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I feel that you could be a better ice destruction deck with a Criminal.
 
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xpiredsodapop wrote:
I feel that you could be a better ice destruction deck with a Criminal.


From the invitational

http://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/21608/my-bits-in-the-july-...

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Gabe Icekiller

Identity:
Gabriel Santiago: Consummate Professional (Core)


Total Cards: (45)
Event (20)
3x Account Siphon (Core #18)
3x Forged Activation Orders (Core #20)
2x Deja Vu (Core #2) ■■
3x Emergency Shutdown (Cyber Exodus #43)
3x Inside Job (Core #21)
3x Kraken (Humanity's Shadow #90)
3x Sure Gamble (Core #50)

Hardware (3)
3x Desperado (Core #24)

Program (16)
3x Parasite (Core #12) ■■
2x Djinn (Core #9) ■■
1x Datasucker (Core #8) ■
3x Crypsis (Core #51)
2x Crescentus (A Study in Static #65)
2x Femme Fatale (Core #26)
3x Sneakdoor Beta (Core #28)

Resource (6)
3x Armitage Codebusting (Core #53)
3x Compromised Employee (Trace Amount #25)
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Gabriel is just sick, sick I tell you!
 
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I've been trying to build a Kit rush deck. What I realize is there is little benefit to Kit running every turn.

The only thing I can put together is a Kit R&D Attack deck, however, it's just so slow to set up. And Shaper is always slow.

So what does Shaper really do? I feel they've got all these programs and they just look cool but no real threat - other than a mid-late R&D attack.

In my several hours of theory crafting and about three scrapped decks I think R&D attack - though a little slow, is the only way to go.
 
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notyetsuperman wrote:
I've been trying to build a Kit rush deck. What I realize is there is little benefit to Kit running every turn.

The only thing I can put together is a Kit R&D Attack deck, however, it's just so slow to set up. And Shaper is always slow.

So what does Shaper really do? I feel they've got all these programs and they just look cool but no real threat - other than a mid-late R&D attack.

In my several hours of theory crafting and about three scrapped decks I think R&D attack - though a little slow, is the only way to go.


Mmmm, pretty much. And then the problem with R&D attack is that if you don't hit stuff you can only wait it out, as opposed to Noise who can choose between waiting it out and milling out more stuff.

It's kinda hard to control the pace when the corp knows they're safe for a while and can build back up and cost you more/wreck you.

Though of course you theoretically can build up for more hits later in the meantime. But that also gives the corp breathing room.

Crims work hitting other places because of denial. Remember I used to complain about every deck being Gabe or Medium RD attacks? That.
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So basically. Crim will still dominate. =)
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xpiredsodapop wrote:
I feel that you could be a better ice destruction deck with a Criminal.


Most decks are better as Criminal.
 
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spags wrote:
xpiredsodapop wrote:
I feel that you could be a better ice destruction deck with a Criminal.


Most decks are better as Criminal.


Show me a crim big dig
 
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xpiredsodapop wrote:
I feel that you could be a better ice destruction deck with a Criminal.
For sure.

The idea here is that you don't need to destroy a lot of ICE to be effective when you're playing Kit. Early game you only need your Decoder and you can threaten quite a lot.

Late game you aim to have Gordian Blade with Personal Touch. You can selectively tweak the board state with Escher, Tinker, and Ice Destruction as needed to gain access to pretty much anything. And more important is that the corp will have a very difficult time accounting for these things.

So no, it can't knock out as many ICE as the one below... but it requires fewer cards and credits to create an equal threat. Efficiency is the name of the game here.
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So I've done more running with this deck and it is totally feasible. And a very competitive one at that. You have to go in with flexible thinking and be agressive early.

Early on you'll want to get either the Gordian Blade or an Atman/Datasucker combo and you're quite a threat. Midgame you'll need to have both.

The ability to throw out Parasites mid-run (via both Personal Workshop and also Clone Chip) is key. Especially when you consider that Datasuckers help both the Atman and the Parasites to get the job done.

There wasn't enough economy in the early versions, so I've had to trim the "fun stuff" like Escher and Crescentus in favor of meat-and-potatoes econ cards like another Kati and two copies of Pawnshop.
 
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here's the latest iteration, which has a beefed up the economy thanks to Dirty Laundry:


Rielle "Kit" Peddler

Economy
1 Aesop's Pawnshop
3 Armitage Codebusting
2 Daily Casts
3 Diesel
3 Dirty Laundry
3 Lockpick
2 Personal Workshop
3 Sure Gamble

Ice Destruction
2 Clone Chip
1 Grimoire [2 influence]
1 Kraken
3 Parasite [6 influence]

Rig
2 Atman
2 Datasucker [2 influence]
3 Gordian Blade

General Running
1 Escher
1 The Helpful AI
3 Indexing
1 Net Shield
3 Self-modifying Code
2 Tinkering

The core focus of the deck is to bypass ICE with Kit's ability and a Gordian Blade to break. Tinkering is a great surprise here.

Anything you can't bypass you destroy with Parasite-Datasucker. Use Clone Chips for recursion.

The main economy is regular cards like Dirty Laundry, Sure Gamble, and Armitage Codebusting. If you do see your Aesop's Pawnshop hit the table, it's a bonus. It can reap Codebusting or Daily Casts, or in a pinch it can even eat a Lockpick or Personal Workshop if you're short on cash.

Try to make at least one run per turn. It helps build up more Datasucker tokens and makes the most of Kit's ability. More importantly it keeps pressure on the corp. That's why we're playing Kit instead of the core set shaper identity! Even if you are running Dirty Laundry versus archives, it is making them defend another server and netting you cash and datasucker tokens.

Be wary of unexposed cards in remotes: they could be Jackson Howard. Don't spend an Indexing if he could be in a remote, or you lose the chance to grab agendas from R&D.
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How many games have you played with this?

Get rid of Gordian Blade, replace with the much better (for Kit) Cyber-Cypher. Then you can get rid of the Lockpicks since you're saving yourself 2 creds every run.

Find a better use of your 10 influence than a one-of Grimoire. Try a couple Stimhacks, they are stupidly good with SMC/CC. (Also, up your Clone Chips to 3.)

Otherwise looks decent. I'll assume the Net Shield is a local meta choice. Kraken is hilarious, I go back and forth on it. Lots of Popup Windows in my local group though which is SO ANNOYING against Kit, so unless I can Parasite it away first Kraken has rarely netted me a quality ICE.

How has the AC/Workshop econ been working out for you? Do you find yourself clicking to draw a lot?
 
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swornabsent wrote:
How many games have you played with this?

Get rid of Gordian Blade, replace with the much better (for Kit) Cyber-Cypher. Then you can get rid of the Lockpicks since you're saving yourself 2 creds every run.

Find a better use of your 10 influence than a one-of Grimoire. Try a couple Stimhacks, they are stupidly good with SMC/CC. (Also, up your Clone Chips to 3.)

Otherwise looks decent. I'll assume the Net Shield is a local meta choice. Kraken is hilarious, I go back and forth on it. Lots of Popup Windows in my local group though which is SO ANNOYING against Kit, so unless I can Parasite it away first Kraken has rarely netted me a quality ICE.

How has the AC/Workshop econ been working out for you? Do you find yourself clicking to draw a lot?


I have not played with this Dirty Laundry iteration yet, but I've played 6 or 7 times with the previous version. It's fun for a Shaper to play so aggro right from turn one, it feels like you're playing Gabe. And with the SMC and cheap cards here you never have to pause to rig up.

Workshop works great: it gets stuff out of my hand and adds a drip economy for cheap. Lets me keep up pressure without wasting whole turns on econ. Oddball stuff like Lockpick and the Breakers drip into play, then eventually if an Aesop's Pawnshop shows up you can trash them for credits with no click usage after they've served their purpose.

I do end up clicking to draw; every deck does! Diesel helps though. I'd never switch to Professional Contacts though. Too much of a momentum hit.

Net Shield is a 1-of to keep me alive versus Jinteki matchups. Mostly for the agenda score damage but potentially Snares or whatever. Easy to fetch with SMC.

Grimoire doesn't always come out, but worthwhile if it does: very cheap for +2MU to permit more Parasites or Datasuckers. And starts the Parasites with a virus token. Great stuff! Previously I had Dyson chips. StimHack would be a great addition though...

Seeing as part of this deck is ICE destruction AND the fact Atman is a backup plan, I can see how dropping Gordian Blade is feasible. But I'm leery. How is Cyber-Cypher used? Where do you usually start it?
 
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dr glaze et al wrote:

Grimoire doesn't always come out, but worthwhile if it does: very cheap for +2MU to permit more Parasites or Datasuckers. And starts the Parasites with a virus token. Great stuff! Previously I had Dyson chips. StimHack would be a great addition though...


No question that if you see Grimoire it helps, I just don't like un-tutorable one-ofs and I think you would be better served by reliably seeing at least one Stimhack that can really boost your momentum by fetching/Workshopping stuff midrun.

dr glaze et al wrote:

Seeing as part of this deck is ICE destruction AND the fact Atman is a backup plan, I can see how dropping Gordian Blade is feasible. But I'm leery. How is Cyber-Cypher used? Where do you usually start it?


Start wherever you want to keep pressure, which presumably will be R&D. I will often install a second later on their fortress remote, or move them around with Scavenge (though I wouldn't run Scavenge just for this - I also run Test Runs and Femmes). Cyber Cypher costing only 2 makes it much more amenable to SMC when you run that singly defended remote. And if replacing GB I would definitely add a single Yog.
 
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Also I think Net Shield is redundant with Deus X and that Deus X is hands down better. Get Deus X out against Jinteki for the Snares and Fetals and just eat the 1 net damage when you score, it's really not debilitating.
 
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