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Subject: C&C Questions that demand an Answer: rss

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David Jensen
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Some of these questions seem to have easy answers;

Will Shaper be able to find enough MU for all the programs?

Can Bioroids dominant with e3 still on the lose?

Will Criminal be supplanted by Shapers new tools?

Will Kit prove to be the new 'fast' Shaper?

Is HBs' brain damage legit?

Can any of HBs identities prove more effective than EtF?

What card(s) will cause the biggest meta shift?
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Captain Frisk
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notyetsuperman wrote:
Some of these questions seem to have easy answers;

Will Shaper be able to find enough MU for all the programs?

Can Bioroids dominant with e3 still on the lose?

Will Criminal be supplanted by Shapers new tools?

Will Kit prove to be the new 'fast' Shaper?

Is HBs' brain damage legit?

Can any of HBs identities prove more effective than EtF?

What card(s) will cause the biggest meta shift?


The answer to almost all of these questions is Monolith!
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David Jensen
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Meta shift: I suggest that Howler, Bioresearch Efficiency Lab, Awakening Center and the new suite of 'Roids will make e3 frequently played.

Heap retrieval will be fun but not viable.
 
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David Jensen
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Captain_Frisk wrote:

The answer to almost all of these questions is Monolith!


You think? Two things that bother me about this card:
1) How do you have 18 credits to pay for this early enough for it to matter?
2) How do you get enough of the right programs in hand to make optimal use of Monolith? I think this deserves a theory craft of its own.
 
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Mychal
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notyetsuperman wrote:
Captain_Frisk wrote:

The answer to almost all of these questions is Monolith!


You think? Two things that bother me about this card:
1) How do you have 18 credits to pay for this early enough for it to matter?
2) How do you get enough of the right programs in hand to make optimal use of Monolith? I think this deserves a theory craft of its own.

I am 110% sure that he was being facetious.
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Aleksi Laitinen
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notyetsuperman wrote:
What card(s) will cause the biggest meta shift?


With a quick judgment I'd say Kit, Atman, and maybe The Source. Cards like Same Old Thing, Self-Modifying Code, and Dirty Laundry will strengthen the current meta. On Corp side, Gila Hands Arcology and Haas Arcology AI, and possibly some of the bioroid stuff depending on how efficient decks built around them can be made.
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Lysander
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Meh, I'm bored, so I'll give my personal input.

notyetsuperman wrote:

Will Shaper be able to find enough MU for all the programs?

Considering they have Omni Drive, Akamatsu, Toolbox, Monolith (lol?), etc I think they can find the MU, however any Shaper foolish enough to do so is going to be eating the Corp's dust. The key to Shaper success with any degree of consistency is a simple, fast rig.


notyetsuperman wrote:

Can Bioroids dominant with e3 still on the lose?

Yes. You can only use E3 on one 2.0 ice per run, which is only useful early game. Considering you can't tutor for your first E3, you'd have to run three of them for even a shot at finding one early, which is highly impractical. E3 will have its uses, but it's now severely limited.


notyetsuperman wrote:

Will Criminal be supplanted by Shapers new tools?

To a degree, but I think they have the vast majority of Shaper tools they want already. What I'd like to see more of is Shapers utilizing Criminal tools, and I'm not talking about merely splashing in Inside Job (especially in Kit, as so often I'm seeing. What's with that?).


notyetsuperman wrote:

Will Kit prove to be the new 'fast' Shaper?

Meh, I'm not impressed. She has as many new tools at her disposal as Exile and The Professor. Mind you, I think she has the quickest (and best) ability of the three, but contrary to popular belief, a lot of Shapers were already "fast", and I don't think she's necessarily the fastest.


notyetsuperman wrote:

Is HBs' brain damage legit?

It'll make for a new HB archetype, flatline, but I don't think it'll be as successful as HBFA and HB Big Ice. It'll definitely function well as a deterrent, and gives Jinteki dangerous new teeth.


notyetsuperman wrote:

Can any of HBs identities prove more effective than EtF?

Probably not, though they're (for the most part) better than Stronger Together.


notyetsuperman wrote:

What card(s) will cause the biggest meta shift?

Cerebral Overdrive, Same Old Thing (well, not shift, but it'll exacerbate the current meta), can't remember what else
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Captain Frisk
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Skylar114 wrote:
notyetsuperman wrote:
Captain_Frisk wrote:

The answer to almost all of these questions is Monolith!


You think? Two things that bother me about this card:
1) How do you have 18 credits to pay for this early enough for it to matter?
2) How do you get enough of the right programs in hand to make optimal use of Monolith? I think this deserves a theory craft of its own.

I am 110% sure that he was being facetious.


I really want to find a way to make it work.... but my gut feel is that it's garbage.

That's not going to stop me from playing it locally. I think Kate's discount is going to make it all playable!
 
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Aleksi Laitinen
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Lysander1 wrote:
To a degree, but I think they have the vast majority of Shaper tools they want already. What I'd like to see more of is Shapers utilizing Criminal tools, and I'm not talking about merely splashing in Inside Job (especially in Kit, as so often I'm seeing. What's with that?).

My first thought with Inside Job was that it'll let you in even deeper by bypassing one ice and Kit making the next one a code gate, and only now I realize they'll both trigger from the same ice, rendering Kit's effect useless.
 
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James 3
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howler is kinda terrible. it doesnt force the runner to encounter the placed bioroid. just play an ice you actually want to play in its slot...
 
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Steven Tu
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flamejuggler wrote:
howler is kinda terrible. it doesnt force the runner to encounter the placed bioroid. just play an ice you actually want to play in its slot...


How much does it cost? 1.
Does it end a run? Very likely.
Can it recur an ICE from archives? Yes.
Can it combo with Chum infinitely? Yes.

Seriously, what more do you want from a 1 cost ICE?
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Aleksi Laitinen
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It's not practically a 1 cost ice, you also need to rez the ice that you installed with it. It'll only "likely end the run" if you also have the credits for the Runner to fear the next ice, which the unrezzed Howler could've been to begin with. The good things about it are that you can choose the ice to install on-the-fly, and you can recycle it from Archives. And the Chum trick.
 
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Ben Finkel
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A1win wrote:
Lysander1 wrote:
To a degree, but I think they have the vast majority of Shaper tools they want already. What I'd like to see more of is Shapers utilizing Criminal tools, and I'm not talking about merely splashing in Inside Job (especially in Kit, as so often I'm seeing. What's with that?).

My first thought with Inside Job was that it'll let you in even deeper by bypassing one ice and Kit making the next one a code gate, and only now I realize they'll both trigger from the same ice, rendering Kit's effect useless.


Correction: rendering Inside Job useless. Spend your influence more wisely.
 
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Aleksi Laitinen
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Azeltir wrote:
A1win wrote:
Lysander1 wrote:
To a degree, but I think they have the vast majority of Shaper tools they want already. What I'd like to see more of is Shapers utilizing Criminal tools, and I'm not talking about merely splashing in Inside Job (especially in Kit, as so often I'm seeing. What's with that?).

My first thought with Inside Job was that it'll let you in even deeper by bypassing one ice and Kit making the next one a code gate, and only now I realize they'll both trigger from the same ice, rendering Kit's effect useless.


Correction: rendering Inside Job useless. Spend your influence more wisely.

I was talking about a situation when you have used an Inside Job. At that point, it doesn't matter what type the ice is, but it does matter that you just played Inside Job since otherwise you'd have to pay to break the ice.
 
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James 3
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Tuism wrote:
flamejuggler wrote:
howler is kinda terrible. it doesnt force the runner to encounter the placed bioroid. just play an ice you actually want to play in its slot...


How much does it cost? 1.
Does it end a run? Very likely.
Can it recur an ICE from archives? Yes.
Can it combo with Chum infinitely? Yes.

Seriously, what more do you want from a 1 cost ICE?


a different card in my deck that has more impact? was always underwhelmed running this, but feel free to try yourself.

NOT one of the top cards of the set, thats for sure. it might end the run once...but you did have to pay to install it and pay to rez it and have a good bioroid in hand when they encounter it...most of the time, having a decent bioroid in your deck and playing it to the location that howler would have gone is preferrable in my experience. theres plenty of worse things you could be doing I guess.
 
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Matt - Conduit23
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A1win wrote:
It's not practically a 1 cost ice, you also need to rez the ice that you installed with it. It'll only "likely end the run" if you also have the credits for the Runner to fear the next ice, which the unrezzed Howler could've been to begin with. The good things about it are that you can choose the ice to install on-the-fly, and you can recycle it from Archives. And the Chum trick.


Howler places the Bioroid rezzed. It is derezzed after the run is completed.

So for 1c you can install and rez a Janus or Heimdall 2.0 which will likely cause them to jack out and let you finish scoring that agenda.
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Alejandro G.
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I don't see a meta shift here for Runners. I think Criminal will still dominate.
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Aleksi Laitinen
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mdanuser wrote:
A1win wrote:
It's not practically a 1 cost ice, you also need to rez the ice that you installed with it. It'll only "likely end the run" if you also have the credits for the Runner to fear the next ice, which the unrezzed Howler could've been to begin with. The good things about it are that you can choose the ice to install on-the-fly, and you can recycle it from Archives. And the Chum trick.


Howler places the Bioroid rezzed. It is derezzed after the run is completed.

So for 1c you can install and rez a Janus or Heimdall 2.0 which will likely cause them to jack out and let you finish scoring that agenda.


Yeah I noticed that too late.
 
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Steven Tu
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xpiredsodapop wrote:
I don't see a meta shift here for Runners. I think Criminal will still dominate.


Me neither. There're just fun things Shapers to try and better neutrals for all runners. Overall I don't see Shapers getting more out of their attacks than before, or being able to deny, etc.
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Piotr Jekel
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At least with Kit, Shapers will be more fun to play. Rather than rely on Credits/Test Run/FF plus R&D Interface runs to lock the corp, there will be more runs and it is where all the fun is. Criminals got just 2 cards (Dirty Laundry and SAme Old Story) but frankly they do not need much more at the moment.

As for Howler, my first thoughts were not too favourable, but considering Chum and ability to rez an ice for a run for free I agree with Tuism's observations. If the installed ice derezzed at the end of the turn, it would be awesome, but for a 1-cost ice you should not ask for more.
 
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Ony Moose
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No one is talking about Levy University being a great Corp asset. It allows the inclusion of 1* Ice from other factions at high inf cost which can be pulled out as answers to the runner's programs.

Fixed cost breakers? Grab a tollbooth.

E3 causing you trouble? Grab a Flare.

Femmed your ice wall with 10 counters? Grabbing a chum to stick in front will slow them down.

Also for Oversight decks, you now have 3* Oversight, 3*Efficiency research and can fetch Janus 1.0, Heimdall 2.0 when you need to using the university.

The downside is the runner sees the ice, but if you are comboing with Howler, Oversight or Efficiency that doesn't really matter.

Alternatively you can use it to pull out Pop-upWindows and stick 3* on R&D early game, or grab your 1* draco to stick on HQ in case of an account siphon.

Even a 1*Cellportal could be useful if you have Sunset or Midori and you can place it at the end of a large server when needed.
 
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Steven Tu
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You know what *demands* an answer?

Efficiency committee and shipment from kaguya. That is all.
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Ony Moose
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And FAO on awakening centre ICE.
 
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David Jensen
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Kandiru wrote:
No one is talking about Levy University being a great Corp asset. It allows the inclusion of 1* Ice from other factions at high inf cost which can be pulled out as answers to the runner's programs.


?

If I've understood this statement, you're trying to make an argument that by including Levy you can have one off's of some powerful ICE. That might infer that you build a deck around Levy.

I disagree and believe Levy is a card that will get you access to more ICE. For instance, I might run only two Archers as part of an ABT & Priority Requisition deck. Using Levy I gain place that card down and then rez it with Priority Requisition.

But ultimately I conclude that Levy is a very expensive tutor.
 
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Igor Đekić
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notyetsuperman wrote:
Cerebral Overdrive


Tuism wrote:
You know what *demands* an answer?

Efficiency committee and shipment from kaguya. That is all.

There is no way that "place an advancement token" equals "advance a card".
 
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