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Subject: FFG created Monolith to get us to discuss/try out lesser played cards rss

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Drake Villareal
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They made a card so bad, that we can't help but to compare it's relative badness to other cards. This gets us thinking that "hey, 55 new cards dropped maybe X card from 4 sets ago isn't so bad anymore".

Monolith is changing the meta already.
 
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Michele Lupo
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I think it's for a different reason altogether.

Brain damage is the only way the corp can seriously hamper the runner in the long term. And as of now it's unremovable.

The only 2 cards that can help you prevent Brain Damage are single use (Deus X against ICE and Feedback Filter that works both against ICE and Edge of World/Cerebral Overwriter.)

Monolith fills a gap as a non single-use brain damage shield, however as a "reactive" card it absolutely cannot be as good as a "proactive" console (like Grimorie or Desperado) because otherwise it would devalue Brain Damage too much. So the choice has been made to make it a hugely front loaded cost with a 3/4 rebate after purchease.

But the point of the card is undeniably the Brain Damage prevention.
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Ken Dilloo
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I thought Public Sympathy was the cure for dame bramage.
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Jeff Lindsay
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EndTheRun wrote:
want to know how playtesters let monolith came into existence? just consider the fact that ffg is located in minnesota


What does this have to do with anything?
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Michele Lupo
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bigloo33 wrote:
I thought Public Sympathy was the cure for dame bramage.


It's a cure but it's not perfect, it's still a resource so a tag happy criminal cannot use it to avoid flatlining
 
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TK Number 3
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Hrrrmmm wrote:
EndTheRun wrote:
want to know how playtesters let monolith came into existence? just consider the fact that ffg is located in minnesota


What does this have to do with anything?


I was wondering the same thing. In Minnesota known for its love of high cost cards? That would look strange on a lisence plate.
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Nicholas Vitek
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My guess is it is a comment about the availability of large groups of playtesters.
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Justin K
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TKNumber3 wrote:
Hrrrmmm wrote:
EndTheRun wrote:
want to know how playtesters let monolith came into existence? just consider the fact that ffg is located in minnesota


What does this have to do with anything?


I was wondering the same thing. In Minnesota known for its love of high cost cards? That would look strange on a lisence plate.


Minnesota is not exactly known for its geek culture.
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Double Plus Undead
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Hrrrmmm wrote:
EndTheRun wrote:
want to know how playtesters let monolith came into existence? just consider the fact that ffg is located in minnesota


What does this have to do with anything?

I love how the sinister implications are left up to the imagination of the reader.
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Adam Kazimierczak
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Minnesota is next to Wisconsin.
And Wisconsin is known for cheese.

So FFG playtesting is cheesy by proxy.
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Alvin Simon
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kops wrote:
TKNumber3 wrote:
Hrrrmmm wrote:
EndTheRun wrote:
want to know how playtesters let monolith came into existence? just consider the fact that ffg is located in minnesota


What does this have to do with anything?


I was wondering the same thing. In Minnesota known for its love of high cost cards? That would look strange on a lisence plate.


Minnesota is not exactly known for its geek culture.


I'd say that's probably why A:NR is a good, balanced and addictive game right now.
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Mara
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ArcticSnake wrote:
I'd say that's probably why A:NR is a good, balanced and addictive game right now.


I'd think that was more of a feature of ANR being a tweaked/balanced remake of a previously awesome game with a cult following.
 
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Andrew
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EndTheRun wrote:
ArcticSnake wrote:
I'd say that's probably why A:NR is a good, balanced and addictive game right now.


I'd think that was more of a feature of ANR being a tweaked/balanced remake of a previously awesome game with a cult following.
FGG has made a ton of significant changes and almost all of them have been good. IT would be incrediably easy to have screwed up, but instead they made it much better. They have proven they know what they are doing.

Monolith isn't intrinsically bad, it's just not good yet. To be good it needs a deck that has 3+ programs that cost 3+ to install and you want them all to be a surprise. Or a deck that just is an MU fiend and wants to instal more and more programs all game.

For example, you could have an anarch deck that waits until a moment when it has an imp already out then slaps down monolith->Sneakdoor beta+nerveagentx2 than instals another imp and runs HQ twice. That's a pretty sweat move that would kill many combo decks, but it's not good enough to build a deck around. However there will eventually be the right programs to make a monolith surprise deck worthwhile.

And FYI it pays for itself immediately if you consider the instal clicks saved for the programs as worth 2c each (reasonable in a shaper deck). It gives you 12 credits discount+6 credits of saved clicks = 18 credits +brain damage protection + 3 mu.

Salvage is by far a much worse card than Monolith.
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David Jensen
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Monolith will not get much play. Toolbox is obsolete because of it's cost and Monolith will have the same fate.

Though I do believe Toolbox might see some play again. MU is more important than ever with so many programs at Shapers disposal.

And how awesome would it be to make R&D free to run with cards like OmniDrive + Darwin and Cyber Cypher+Toolbox.

Back to Monolith, I just see rare opportunities where you'll get the 12 credit savings from the 3 program install.
 
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David Jackman
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notyetsuperman wrote:

Back to Monolith, I just see rare opportunities where you'll get the 12 credit savings from the 3 program install.


And thats the crux of it, i think.

If you could save 12 (making it cost 1 more than dinosaurus, which isnt SO bad) credits consistently without a lot of setup, I could see it getting play.

18 credits to install your full rig in a single click could, theoretically, be efficient.

The real problem is: how do you apply early pressure while building up to dumping monolith?

Its pretty much a given that competitive decks will apply some pressure early. I dont see a way that old-school 'big rig' will work very well anymore - corps are a lot smarter and will squeak through points if you just sit there and build up.
 
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Leonid G
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Saan wrote:


The real problem is: how do you apply early pressure while building up to dumping monolith?


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William Frank
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kops wrote:
Minnesota is not exactly known for its geek culture.


There are three major conventions in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area: Minicon, Marscon, and Convergence.

Convergence this year actually had an FFG presence, in the form of a games library for borrowing, and FFG representatives available to help newbies play--there were Netrunner games going all weekend.
 
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Jack Dietz
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Maybe the best-case scenario is to host it on a Personal Workshop and install it mid-game with Stimhack. You'll have a full hand likely to have 3 programs you'd like to run, and 3 more memory to run those programs.

I think it's quite weak though.
 
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Drake Villareal
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jcdietz03 wrote:
Maybe the best-case scenario is to host it on a Personal Workshop and install it mid-game with Stimhack. You'll have a full hand likely to have 3 programs you'd like to run, and 3 more memory to run those programs.

I think it's quite weak though.


What if I told you that Monolith gives you 3 MU?
 
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Brodie
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It makes me sad, but Monolith is super bad. If its install ability let you fetch 3 programs from your stack or grip and install them with the discount, it might be better, but as it is, you have to have them all in your grip - ridiculous. On top of that, its vaunted brain damage prevention requires you to discard a program - if it were "trash a card from your grip" it would be OK, but you're already going to clear your hand out with its install ability. In the far future, perhaps, when there are enough programs that The Professor looks good and a deck that runs 30 programs works, maybe. Maybe.
 
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Malefact
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Okay, so, I know that most of the regulars that hang out on these forums are, like me, interested in playing A:NR to a very high level. But I recognise that there are folks who will just want to play the game casually, or build decks around certain cards just for the fun of experimentation.

I don't think that Monolith is great or anything, far from it, but I do think that it's pretty cool. I mean, it's an 18 cost console. EIGHTEEN. Right now, that's twice as expensive as the second most pricey runner card in the ENTIRE GAME. And so: I imagine that it's gonna feel hella sweet for me to drop that card and get the three-program combo off even if it only happens once in a blue moon, especially if I happen to pull some ridiculous Mac + inside man x 3 + modded shenanigans to get it out for the low low price of 8.

I don't know much about LCGs or CCGs in general (ANR is my first twoo wuv) but I reckon some cards exist primarily for fun, and not for high-level competetive play. And I'm quite alright with that. The more folks that can have a good time with ANR, the better.
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