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Android: Netrunner – Creation and Control» Forums » General

Subject: 3 Ways Monolith could have been better, and without being OP rss

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Michael Redston
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1) Install 3 programs for free
2) Cost 15
3) Cost 10, but install 2 program and at a discount of 3 each

Even with these iterations, I doubt it would have seen competitive play. Currently? It's ridonkeylous. Maybe it would see play if we'll have a card in the lines of "Event, 0, Play only if you stole an agenda this turn. Install a piece of hardware for free." Maybe.
 
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Brian H
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Or just tutor for the programs.
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Michele Lupo
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I think it's intentional that the card is not that strong. It would have been ok with all 3 of those clauses IF it didn't also prevent brain damage.
 
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Brian H
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Except it doesn't really "prevent" brain damage entirely. It just prevents you from taking the reduced hand size, but you still have to discard and can be flatlined by it. Getting to choose what cards go is good, but you still have to discard.

Not saying it's a useless ability, but worth 18 credits? I dunno. I think if it allowed you to pull the programs from your stack (and heap? Maybe just stack) it would be worth the credits. Right now it is too difficult to get the "perfect hand" in addition to the massive amount of credits needed to pull it off. And then, you are left with little to no cards left in hand.
 
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MavericK96 wrote:
Except it doesn't really "prevent" brain damage entirely. It just prevents you from taking the reduced hand size, but you still have to discard and can be flatlined by it. Getting to choose what cards go is good, but you still have to discard.


I have wondered about this a bit. What if there were a hardware whose text just said "Whenever you would take damage, you may choose the card to be trashed from your grip instead of choosing randomly."

How much would you pay to install such a hardware? Maybe 1 or 2 credits in most decks?
 
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Jack Keys
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DrTall wrote:
MavericK96 wrote:
Except it doesn't really "prevent" brain damage entirely. It just prevents you from taking the reduced hand size, but you still have to discard and can be flatlined by it. Getting to choose what cards go is good, but you still have to discard.


I have wondered about this a bit. What if there were a hardware whose text just said "Whenever you would take damage, you may choose the card to be trashed from your grip instead of choosing randomly."

How much would you pay to install such a hardware? Maybe 1 or 2 credits in most decks?


Depending on the deck, I might be willing to pay three or four credits for that ability.
 
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Michael Redston
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I always secrectly wished the damage types were different, like so:

Net Damage- Runner chooses card to discard
Meat Damage- Random Discard
Brain Damage- Corp chooses discard (+brain damage token obv)
 
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kroen wrote:
I always secrectly wished the damage types were different, like so:

Net Damage- Runner chooses card to discard
Meat Damage- Random Discard
Brain Damage- Corp chooses discard (+brain damage token obv)


I think that would be cool, except that it hurts Jinteki too much
 
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El-ad David Amir
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Not all cards are created equal. And not all cards need to be competitive. Monolith is a cute cards that does a big splash- look how much people are talking about it. I think it's a cool card in that regard.
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Brian H
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I think (hope) that eventually we'll see something to help it out...maybe a card that lets you install a console reducing the cost significantly. Like Modded, but console-specific.
 
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Brent Mair
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What is this Monolith of which you speak?
 
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Michael Redston
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Hell, even if it let you install 3 programs for free from hand and/or trash and/or from your stack by searching it, it would still be underpowered.
 
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Dan K
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IirionClaus wrote:
Not all cards are created equal. And not all cards need to be competitive. Monolith is a cute cards that does a big splash- look how much people are talking about it. I think it's a cool card in that regard.


Seriously. The competitive players are a minority in every customizable game. The designers make cards for every segment of the audience. Including the largest segment, casual players.

Some people want to win a lot, and some people want to dream about Cell Portal and Monolith. It's not something worth getting bent out of shape about.
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Brian H
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kroen wrote:
Hell, even if it let you install 3 programs for free from hand and/or trash and/or from your stack by searching it, it would still be underpowered.


Nah, if it let you search your stack, heap and grip for cards, it would be far better. All you would need in-hand at that point was Monolith. Plus, you would be more likely to be able to use a Modded or something.

Maybe if they did that, and reduced the cost to 15, it would still be balanced IMO.
 
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Alex Rockwell
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Another way:

Cost $3 and say "Gain $1 whenever you make a successful run".


(Just giving more fodder for the people who love to point out my deperado obsession).
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Leonid G
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After some serious evaluation I actually think that even as meager a change as install cost 15 would break Monolith. The "Search Stack" ability would definitely make power level of this card over 9000.

It may be surprisingly useful as-is... In a right deck.

Db0 rezzed C&C in OCTGN so it's test running time.
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Michael Redston
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Metalize wrote:
After some serious evaluation I actually think that even as meager a change as install cost 15 would break Monolith. The "Search Stack" ability would definitely make power level of this card over 9000.

It may be surprisingly useful as-is... In a right deck.

Db0 rezzed C&C in OCTGN so it's test running time.

Challenge declined.
 
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Brian H
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Alexfrog wrote:
Another way:

Cost $3 and say "Gain $1 whenever you make a successful run".


(Just giving more fodder for the people who love to point out my deperado obsession).


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Michael Redston
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Now that we've seen a 18c console, I wonder if we'll see a 0c-2c console. Probably in the Criminal deluxe, to make them more broken. Probably something in the lines of

ConsoleOfBrokennessBecauseCriminalsAren'tBrokenEnough
Console Criminals 2c
You have 1 additional [click] each turn wich can only be spent on a run.
 
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kroen wrote:
Now that we've seen a 18c console, I wonder if we'll see a 0c-2c console. Probably in the Criminal deluxe, to make them more broken. Probably something in the lines of

ConsoleOfBrokennessBecauseCriminalsAren'tBrokenEnough
Console Criminals 2c
You have 1 additional [click] each turn wich can only be spent on a run.


Doppelganger is 3c and strictly worse, so that couldn't possibly be 2.
 
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Roberta Yang
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kroen wrote:
Now that we've seen a 18c console, I wonder if we'll see a 0c-2c console. Probably in the Criminal deluxe, to make them more broken. Probably something in the lines of

ConsoleOfBrokennessBecauseCriminalsAren'tBrokenEnough
Console Criminals 2c
You have 1 additional [click] each turn wich can only be spent on a run.

This is some biting satire here. It's funny because criminals are overpowered, that is the joke.
 
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Michael Redston
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Ethereality wrote:

Doppelganger is 3c and strictly worse, so that couldn't possibly be 2.

Strictly? No. Doppleganger gives +1 MU.
 
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Adam Perry
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i mean i feel like one of the problem's is that there are only 4 programs in the game that cost 4 to install, so either you're not getting max value, or you have to save up MORE than 18 credits. it might get a -little- better (so go from abysmal to bad) if there were more 4 credit programs that made a significant impact on the game. but overcosted? REALLY?

LETS LOOK AT THE NUMBERS

factor in 3 installs at 4 credits each. that's 12 credits.

monolith gives you bonus 2 MU that you'd get in akamatsus, so that's 14 credits.

monlith gives you 1 MU and a console ability that's worth 3-4 credits, so thats 17-18 credits

$$$ CAN U SEE DA VALUE $$$

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Clyde W
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It also saves you three clicks of installs.
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Lluluien
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Alexfrog wrote:
Another way:

Cost $3 and say "Gain $1 whenever you make a successful run".


(Just giving more fodder for the people who love to point out my deperado obsession).


You win; I laughed
 
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