Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
3 Posts

Commands & Colors: Ancients» Forums » Rules

Subject: Elephant rampage question rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Andrew Gross
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
When rolling the two hits against each adjacent unit for elephant rampage, if the rampaging elephant has a leader in a an adjacent hex, does it count leader symbols as hits? Does it do so even when rolling two dice against the friendly unit that has the leader attached (so that the leader is helping the elephants attack his own unit)?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Allen Doum
United States
Orange County
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
andrewgr wrote:
When rolling the two hits against each adjacent unit for elephant rampage, if the rampaging elephant has a leader in a an adjacent hex, does it count leader symbols as hits? Does it do so even when rolling two dice against the friendly unit that has the leader attached (so that the leader is helping the elephants attack his own unit)?


No. Elephants do not benifit from leaders. Only the Unit symbol counts when rolling for "ramapage" hits. See the last sentence of the 1st par. under Elephant Retreat (Rampage).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Duke
United States
Wynne
Arkansas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Here is a lengthy posting from CsW that covered almost all the elephant gray areas. I'll add in the official replies in ALL CAPS and add the additional gray area at the end.


Let's make Richard's life "easier" by clustering a whole slew (herd?) of "elephant rules" all together.

Given that it is a herd, the good news is, this uses the diagram on page 11 as a starting place and all reference points are to that diagram, so it should be easy to follow.

Much of this list is "just confirming," and I apologize to those who dislike a "does it really mean?" question, but I have seen a lot of questions here and on BGG which went over things that seemed solidly explained in the rules, so perhaps this effort, all together--and tied to the rulebook-- can save some individual questions later.

We're looking at the diagram, bottom of 11.

Forget situation A. This is all about B.

1. Example describes the elephant rampage on all the surrounding units. For the record, if the 2 die rampage on unit B had scored a BLUE hit (remember, rampages don't care about swords), Unit B would lose one block and-- here's the question-- we would roll 2 more dice to check the leader hit? (takes double helmets to kill him.) CORRECT

2. Let's jump out of linear sequence and stay on unit B. With the elephant NOT retreating, it gets to Battle Back on unit B-- a Warrior unit. The rules clearly say that an elephant in Battle Back rolls the same die as attacked him-- which is 4, since this was a full strength Warrior attacking. If the elephant hits-- leader hits and results are normal. CORRECT.

3. NEXT TURN, if the elephant wanted to attack Unit B again, he would only roll 3 dice, because this is a "depleted" Warrior unit, right? Yes to part 1-- 3 dice. The modifier is that the Close Combat exceptions say-- when it is the elephant's turn to attack-- it always rolls 3 dice against a Warrior, so even if the Warrior was full strength, SINCE the Warrior is not attacking the elephant, the rule takes it. 3 dice here.
CORRECT.

4. Shifting focus. In the example, friendly units X and Y get a 2 die rampage attack also. The example then shows the elephant with 2 retreats, and since both hexes that are TOWARD THE BASE LINE are filled, those 2 hexes both lose 2 BLOCKS, one for each hex that the elephant can't reteat. (And note that if the Unit A hex was blank AND the Carthage heavy cavalry hex was also empty, X and Y would still be tromped because moving to A would be "sideways" and units cannot retreat or evade that way.)
NOT A QUESTION, REALLY, BUT CORRECT.

5. But let's make this more interesting, as it will be in your game. We said that X and Y will both lose 2 blocks, because they are both "responsible"for blocking the elephant retreat. Let's pretend that EITHER of them was already weak, and that the 2 die "rampage" roll had come up with their color and eliminated one of them entirely. (You can't retreat them in rampage, because only colored-hits matter.) So now, if--say-- X is gone, the space is not blocked. After the rampage ends, the elephant retreats through X's space. Y does not lose further. BUT, Roman unit B does get to momentum advance into the now-empty Elephant hex AND have a bonus attack. He gets to bonus attack because he is a warrior unit and they always do. He also has a leader attached, and any foot unit WITH a leader that momentum advances can bonus attack. In this case, being a warrior WITH a leader does not help-- he does not get 2 bonus attacks.


5. So we said X dies in the rampage. And if X had an attached leader, we would know to roll... what? Normally on an "eliminated unit," the attacker rolls one die-- helmet kills the leader. Do we follow this same procedure-- roll one die on a unit eliminated in a rampage and a helmet kills the leader?
YES

6. Okay, now let's say, the rampage leaves X with 1 block and Y with several. Elephant retreat time and X and Y block the elephant. Both lose a block. But now, with X eliminated, a retreat path is open and the elephant CAN retreat, so it does (one hex). Y does not lose another block. (And B can momentum advance and yadda yadda.) So suppose unit X, which lost its last block in an elephant retreat ALSO had a leader with it? Looks like probably a "roll one die-- helmet kills." But worth checking.
BOTH CORRECT

7. If our picture adds a leader to unit Y, which loses (say) one block in the rampage-- that means a 2 die roll against that leader, 2 helmets kills him. And when unit Y loses one more block from blocking the elephant retreat-- but is not eliminated-- then we are again back to rolling 2 blocks, needing 2 helmets to kill him. ??? YEP-- EVERY DISTINCT ROLL AND HIT IS ANOTHER ROLL ON THE LEADER. (IF YOU ROLL 2 HITS IN A SINGLE ATTACK, THAT IS JUST ONE LEADER ROLL).

Later, we can talk about the demoralizing effects for units who move into the hex where the elephant used to be. (That would be a serious rule in ASL.)



THE ADDED QUESTION tacks on to #3 above. But suppose instead of a Warrior, it is something else attacking the elephant but using one of the "Tactics" cards which provide a + die bonus. (+2 for clash of shields, +1 for mounted attack and Spartacus.) If the elephant gets attacked with one of these and still have a battle back opportunity, again, it rolls the same NUMBER of dice as the attacker used.

Ditto if the attack came from "bad" terrain which limited the die to 2-- the elephant battles back with 2.

It's consistent. It just travels in a lot of different places.

Have fun.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.