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Subject: Renovation + x Hut Extension (MnImpr) / Dual-action order rss

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Good day,

I have a question regarding using the Minor Improvements Wooden Hut/Clay Hut/Stone House Extension when using the "After Renovation also Major/Minor Improvement".

Let's assume I'm in a wooden hut, have ample resources and both the Wooden Hut Extension and the Clay Hut Extension.

I take "After Renovation also Major/Minor Improvement".

Am I now allowed to:

a) Play Wooden Hut Extension, then renovate. (Paying for one more room, because I extended)
b) Renovate, then play Clay Hut Extension.
c) Choose any of the two options.

I assume that only "b" is possible.
Although, the main point about the wording on "After x also y" is probably to show that x is mandatory, while y is optional.


To extend on this, what is the order of dual-action spaces?
Is it possible to use any order you wish on an "x And/Or y" space?

Thanks in advance.
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Keng Leong Yeo
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With after x also y action spaces, you have to do x before you can do y. y is optional.

With x and/or y action spaces, you have a choice of whether to do x only, y only or x and y.

As such, the correct answer to your renovation question is b, as you have suspected.
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Sander Engels
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Yeoster wrote:
With x and/or y action spaces, you have a choice of whether to do x only, y only or x and y.

I would say that this also means that you can do:

x only OR
y only OR
x, then y OR
y, then x
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Derakon Derakon
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Right, the "After X, Y" ones require you to do X first. The "X and/or Y" ones (Isn't that just Sow and/or Bake Bread?) don't specify an order, I don't think, but I also can't think of a situation in which it would be relevant what order the actions are done in.
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Derakon wrote:
Right, the "After X, Y" ones require you to do X first. The "X and/or Y" ones (Isn't that just Sow and/or Bake Bread?) don't specify an order, I don't think, but I also can't think of a situation in which it would be relevant what order the actions are done in.


You might want to Bake Bread, to get food to buy grain/veg from the Grocer to then Sow.
 
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Sander Engels
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Derakon wrote:
Right, the "After X, Y" ones require you to do X first. The "X and/or Y" ones (Isn't that just Sow and/or Bake Bread?) don't specify an order, I don't think, but I also can't think of a situation in which it would be relevant what order the actions are done in.

Build Rooms and/or Stables is another one. But you're right in that it won't matter which order you take.
 
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Benjamin Kerenza
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Plow and/or Sow also shouldn't matter what order. I have always assumed you can do them in any order you want whereas after renovate also improvement you have to so the renovation first.
 
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Andy Kerrison
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It's worth noting that both boitajeux and the iOS app let you perform the actions in either order when you take an 'and/or' action, so it is fairly safe to assume that's the correct interpretation
 
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bjwells wrote:
Plow and/or Sow also shouldn't matter what order. I have always assumed you can do them in any order you want whereas after renovate also improvement you have to so the renovation first.


Again, there are a couple of exceptions where this might make a difference, for example the Occ that give you extra grain/veg is you have fewer fields.
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Matt Shields
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Derakon wrote:
Right, the "After X, Y" ones require you to do X first. The "X and/or Y" ones (Isn't that just Sow and/or Bake Bread?) don't specify an order, I don't think, but I also can't think of a situation in which it would be relevant what order the actions are done in.


Plow and/or Sow, Build Rooms and/or Build stables, Start Player and/or Minor Improvement.

There are lots of cases where you have card combos cause it to matter which half you do first.

Plow and/or Sow is obvious. If you sow first you can't sow the new field you just plowed. There are tons of cards that provide some benefit either when you sow or when you plow. I'm sure the order would matter a lot if you had the rights combinations of cards.

Build a Room causing you to receive food from your Architect, then build a stable and spend the food you received at your Fence Overseer to get some fences. On the other hand - Build the stable first, get a cow from Stockman, convert it to food, then use the food to buy reed off your Grocer and use the reed to build a room. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples.

I can't think of a minor improvement that triggers off of start player being taken, although there is an occupation in the Wa/Fl deck that does (Real Estate Agent or something?). I guess if you combined that with the minor that lets you play occs instead of minors you might have a situation where you'd specifically want to use the minor action before the start player action. Or I guess if you already had that guy in play you'd want to start player first to get the resource off him, and then you can spend the resource on your minor improvement.
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Matt Shields
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Andy_K wrote:
It's worth noting that both boitajeux and the iOS app let you perform the actions in either order when you take an 'and/or' action, so it is fairly safe to assume that's the correct interpretation


Yes, though technically boitajeux implements Start Player and/or minor wrong in that there is no way to choose only the minor improvement function. It seems to be implemented as "After Start Player, optional minor improvement". Then again it's so absurdly rare that you forgo start player, that maybe it's better to not even provide the option.
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Mike T
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TwitchBot wrote:
Build a Room causing you to receive food from your Architect, then build a stable and spend the food you received at your Fence Overseer to get some fences. On the other hand - Build the stable first, get a cow from Stockman, convert it to food, then use the food to buy reed off your Grocer and use the reed to build a room. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples.


Good examples. Another one: (Stockman or Fence Overseer+Animal Breeder) + Pelt Roof. Build stables, get animals, kill animals, get reed, build rooms.

Can't think of anything good for SP and/or minor.
 
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