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Skirmish Tactics Apocalypse» Forums » Variants

Subject: Some concepts I've been trying for the past weeks. rss

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R T
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For some time I've been playing around with the concept of layers on board.

I manage to produce a look alike one to example.
In this you can see 2 of the concepts I'm playing.
The first is the 'ramp concept': quite easy to explain, if you use a ramp (or stairs) you go up without any penalty.
The second its a little more complex and still have issues. But it goes like this: The symbol of high ground would take a number, and that would go for how high you are. You can't climb up more than one level at your own. You can jump down and take one damage die for each level plus one, (50/50 chance), for a jump from 3 level to ground, you throw two dices, each fail you lose one health, flying, hovering or similar unit abilities will throw no dice.
Firing as some issues with LOS and range, since some high angles will make range less than normal and with some positions player cant have LOS. I'm Working on a easy to read table.



Not in this image another concept for walls, but running quite difficult, since I'm trying to squeeze walls between squares, but that is a full concept to develop and try.
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Hugh G. Rection
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Since this appears to be a raised platform on supports, don't forget movement under the structure, on ground level. ninja
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David Thompson
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Great stuff, RT.

I LOVE the ramp idea. That would be very easy to integrate into the current rules. It could just be a piece of terrain that is treated just like clear/normal terrain but allows you to move to Elevated with no penalty. That's pretty much what you were thinking, right?

As for the stacked Elevation...that's a much, much more complex issue. I like it in concept, but I think LoS would be a major difficulty to overcome. That's when minis games with 3d terrain start to have an advantage over mini/boardgame hybrids with 2d terrain tiles. I'm interested in seeing what you come up with for a solution.

David
 
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Hugh_G_Rection wrote:
Since this appears to be a raised platform on supports, don't forget movement under the structure, on ground level. ninja


At this point, real levels aren't possible, I totally would like it, but baby steps. If I manage this advance, maybe in a near future I can deal with it. Now I'm just trying to make this work.
 
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Skirmish_Tactics wrote:
Great stuff, RT.

I LOVE the ramp idea. That would be very easy to integrate into the current rules. It could just be a piece of terrain that is treated just like clear/normal terrain but allows you to move to Elevated with no penalty. That's pretty much what you were thinking, right?

As for the stacked Elevation...that's a much, much more complex issue. I like it in concept, but I think LoS would be a major difficulty to overcome. That's when minis games with 3d terrain start to have an advantage over mini/boardgame hybrids with 2d terrain tiles. I'm interested in seeing what you come up with for a solution.

David


The ramp was easy, still in development is the ladder concept ( 1 move, several levels up).
For the stacked elevation, and for now, only one level can be played (no under playing). First plays worked fine. Some issues on LOS and Range, but if you draw a grid and calculate it, it would work (working on a grid/table to immediate LOS Range issue).
2D terrain titles can benefit from several levels without major issues.
In the rails gamescape you could say rails on ground, platform and trains are level 1 and some roofs level 2.

On underground domes, you can make ground ruble, then high level pass walks and buildings and roofs and upper levels on level 2.

Finally, in the church tile you can set roof of the church level 1 and tower bell level 2.

This concepts are fully operational, the learning curve is a little high, but manageable, just remember, each square only permits one level, NO STAKING UNITS.
 
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And now the Walls concept:


As you can see, the walls concept would be something between the normal squares. The general idea is to have a wall that would work as a wall without losing a full square.
In the drawing, I go a little further with the 'window' advance, but to be honest, I'm having troubles with huge units and windows.
Also have issues with CC cross windows.

In general, I also tried some windows rules, but in the end, adapting the already deployed rules was a simpler solution.

I really like some perspectives and opinions, since I always ask David to break STA into two distinct phases, the 'Kiss' One and after, a Advanced one with more stuff. I hope some of these could get into the advanced mode.
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David Thompson
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It's funny that you should propose these types of walls. Early on in the gamescape design (not long after I finally decided on squares over hexes), I went back and forth on whether the walls should be full squares of elevated terrain (like they are now) or the way you have them in your design. There are pros and cons to both, but the biggest issue I had with the walls as you have them designed is what happens to them when they are destroyed? Are they removed without creating a different type of terrain? Do they create one or two squares of difficult terrain? Do they create a sort of wall of difficult terrain?

In keep with the KISS principle, I ended up going with the full square for the walls because it kept them in line with the design for full squares of other types of Elevated and Blocking Terrain, it made it easier to transition them into Difficult Terrain, etc.

However, I'm interested to hear your ideas on your wall concept.
 
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And finally a very heavy tile with some new approaches.


Besides the already spoke 'Ramp' concept and the levels, I tried to put two more concepts. The under cross and the ladder.
The under cross is a direct solution to the level problem. With this solution, the under levels are considered empty, meaning, You have LOS and you can cross it. At this point a simple rule to use it, you have to fully cross it, so in this case, you have to be able to move twice or you cant even move whatever.
The ladder is quite simple, to move from one square to other square by the ladder you only pay the difference between levels, from level 1 to level 2 you only use one move. From level 0 to level 2 you would have to spend 2 moves. Again you can't do half, you have to do the full move at once, spending the according moves.

I'm still battling with the values, but costing more would nullify ladders, since would be the same cost climb anywhere else. Ideas needed.

Some of these concepts are making their way to a very customized STA -
Pegasus Bridge at WWII. If I find the time to do it, test it...
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David Thompson
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Wow. This is so cool. I definitely want to try out some of these ideas. I love the idea of being able to have multiple levels of Elevation. A little too complex for the base game, but I think it's definitely one of the first optional rules I'd like to add to the game. The ladders and ramps are very cool additions to the concept.
 
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