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Cave Evil» Forums » General

Subject: Mounted Boards rss

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"If funding lightly exceeds our 420 games goal we'll back board available but separately for those that would like them."

Considering that you've already reached your threshold for a re-print (Congratulations!), how about throwing in mounted boards as an extra purchase (add-on)? Looks like the interest is there.

I'll commit right now to adding a board to each of my four copies that I've pre-ordered Anyone else willing to splurge for a mounted board?

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Pete Grey
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If it wasn't a crazy increase, ya.
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Baz Hemmons
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I'm ordering through boardgameguru (uk) - if the mounted board happens and I can get one through guru I can't see myself not going for it unless it's stupidly expensive.
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nathan hayden
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I have quotes for a folding one. I just want to talk to the manufacturer on Monday. It's reasonable. I like some of the puzzle piece boards I've experienced. They seem to sit flat consistently. Is this common for everyone or have I been lucky? Any preferences?
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Bill Paradise
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I'd prefer a folding board. The puzzle ones tend to not always fit together properly and wear more from putting them together and taking them apart.
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gameguru wrote:
I'd prefer a folding board. The puzzle ones tend to not always fit together properly and wear more from putting them together and taking them apart.


Same here, far prefer folding.
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Baz Hemmons
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Puzzle piece boards can be excellent (Duel of Ages II), but folding is probably the simpler/safer choice - mis-aligned cuts for a puzzle board could potentially cause all sorts of issues.
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Scott Everts
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The paper board isn't something I like and don't think many do. I'm surprised a mounted board isn't included in all copies. That seems rather standard these days.

I'll admit I haven't pre-ordered the game but seriously thinking about it. But the paper map is a big part of my hesitation.
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nathan hayden
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I wish I could explain the pricing in visual pictures, but essentially the game is priced under $100 due to the box size and weight that it is, and lack of a game board. The following may be kind of uninteresting but it is why the game is the price that it is.

We are aiming to make 1000 games and our entire pre-order campaign was priced with this number in mind. When people talk about industry standards and game boards being available, or minis and so forth there are many things to consider.

1st: Quantities of 1000 are often a terrible price point for a publisher. The average FFG, Rio Grande Game, Z-Man game are printing in quantities well above that. A bare minimum would be a 3000 print run and that is small. Why not aim for 3000? It is possible to aim for that, but that would be starting the pre-order campaign at a much higher and almost impossible goal. It's easier to say we need 420 games to make 1000 and achieve that than to say we need 1300 games pre-ordered to make 3000 (or what ever number). 420 is less frightening in appearance. I think.

So you have a small print run of 1000 which make a steeper cost. Keep in mind the many many wargames out there that use paper maps flawlessly and also suffer the same cost issues.

GMT has been adding boards to games that are reprinted at higher quantities, but they usually increase the box size.

2nd: So we wanted to be sure the game was less than $100. By adding a board it would increase the size of the box and add weight to the box. By increasing the size of the box you add more cost to the box. By adding more cost to the box you increase the price of the game. Also the game board itself increases the cost of the game.

The box size now increases as does the weight. Now rather than being able to ship 10 games in one box, now we can only ship 6 or 7. the weight increases shipping costs here in the states and globally. The fact that we can only fit 7 in a box also increases shipping costs.

Sorry this is so entirely boring.

3rd: THIS GAME IS MADE FOR MAPS! I know I know boards are so awesome. Put they are entire impractical to our needs with where we want to go with this game. We want maps that can lay next to or overlap existing maps. We want many maps. We can supply many maps in one expansion whereas one board would take the entire space 5 maps could.

The Cave Tiles ARE the board! The map is purely a hex reference as to where to put tiles.

Although this test is messy, boards are unable to achieve this.


4th: We love maps more than boards and I'm sorry to thrust our fascination with maps upon the buyer. I know, we are in the minority, but honestly photos like this make me far more happy than any board I've ever seen.


But photos like this are just pipe dreams until we see how the expansions come about. We are obviously looking into a hopeful future, and not every Cave Evil buyer is going to journey into the expansions with us.

I hope this might explain. We know people love boards and since Cave Evil is a smaller map and can be played for a lifetime without ever needing to buy new maps or expansions we can definitely make a board. And I believe this board might be able to be put in the box after components have been punched out, but I can't promise this without seeing. I would say we probably won't be making boards for expansion maps as it would get too costly and probably won't work for our needs.
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Rick Koeppen
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I would be all over a folding, mounted board. Currently I have my paper map in a nice poster frame hanging on the wall.
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Einmal ist keinmal
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I really don't want any boards if it will increase the size of the box or the cost of the game. It sounds like both of these cases are true, so my vote is a big NO. Besides, since you say that the tiles are the board and the map is just a hex reference for placing the tiles, then I think having a board is completely unnecessary. I trust that the material of the paper map will be good quality and endure many plays.

Thanks for sharing your reasons behind your decision. It makes complete sense to me.
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nathan hayden
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LegoRick wrote:
I would be all over a folding, mounted board. Currently I have my paper map in a nice poster frame hanging on the wall.


Folding board it will be. Thanks everyone We'll reconfirm quote Monday and hopefully know something by Monday evening. I think we could add to the pre order number. Just saying something like "Boards available separately if so and so number is achieved." And I think it's very doable and can be done at the same time everything else is printed so it can ship together.

If price is too crazy I will let everyone know immediately.
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Scott Everts
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dragonblaster wrote:
I wish I could explain the pricing in visual pictures, but essentially the game is priced under $100 due to the box size and weight that it is, and lack of a game board. The following may be kind of uninteresting but it is why the game is the price that it is.

*snip*

I hope this might explain. We know people love boards and since Cave Evil is a smaller map and can be played for a lifetime without ever needing to buy new maps or expansions we can definitely make a board. And I believe this board might be able to be put in the box after components have been punched out, but I can't promise this without seeing. I would say we probably won't be making boards for expansion maps as it would get too costly and probably won't work for our needs.

Thanks for explaining the reason you want to include paper over a mounted board. I just worry that folded paper boards never seem to lay flat and also get worn quickly. But I perfectly understand the costs involved and why you have to make that decision. It's the same issue Victory Point Games faces with small runs and large expenses.
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Nick Storm
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How about this for a quick fix ? Cannibalize (thematic) an existing game board and then just spray mount the Cave board on it ?

Go to Goodwill, Salvation army / thrift store and search for a game board that will fit ?

Cheap and effective mod.

It will also be interesting when the first person reports back with the perfect game to use...
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Anthony
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Nate, in light of major f-ups we've seen with game designers/ companies getting in above their heads with the crowdfunding thing, I'd like to give a HUGE thank-you to you guys for putting out your games the way YOU want them; mounted boards etc. be damned.

Cave Evil sold out it's print run, in part, not because of the components other gamers wanted but for the game play itself.

In this new environment of "stretch goals" and "backer bonuses" it's refreshing and amazing that you all aren't getting sidetracked into that kind of "gimme more money and I'll give you more stuff even if it breaks me" bullshit.

Keep doin' what you're doin' brother. I'm fucking stoked to see more of your games on my permanent* game shelf.

*never sell, never trade
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Dave K
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I'm one of the people that would like and would pay extra for a mounted board but I 100% support you making sure it's priced reasonably. If it doesn't pan out, so be it, but thank you for checking for us regardless of the outcome.
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nathan hayden
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Thanks Anthony and David.

Anthony: This was the strangest year to try to make a board game yet. Everything changed in a hyper capacity compared to previous years. We just wanted to make the game for those that didn't get it the first time around and we happened to have the energy to do it right now but this current crowdfunding climate made it different. As you know pre-order stuff has been happening in this hobby for years. We are absolutely rotten salesmen, the only thing we could do was a regular pre-order deal. It just feels more comfortable for us this way.

We thought that we might have to do a KS thing because it became a new normal, and after trying to write one tier we gave up.

edit: had to edit a little. i blab on and on. jesus.
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D. Barrera
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dragonblaster wrote:
We want many maps. We can supply many maps in one expansion whereas one board would take the entire space 5 maps could.


I dislike folded maps so much that when I noticed this game a year or so back, the moment I saw the folded map I ignored it. HOWEVER!! What you are saying is more than enough reason to go with maps with this game since you guys and you alone know how you want to expand the game, releasing a mounted map for this game doesn't make much sense unless you want to keep releasing mounted maps with the expansions.

By the way, I'm getting the game this time around (folded or mounted, who cares), nice of you guys reprinting it.
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nathan hayden
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We got quotes for boards and they look good, but I'm afraid that there may have been a typo on one printing cost that seems too good to be true. The business day is done here so he should get back to me first thing in the morning.

I think I know the correct amount, but just need to be certain. Sorry for the delay.
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Ryan Jones
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Thanks for update Nate. I'm going to throw money into the vat, but just want to see what the final options are first. Buying no matter what, and before 8/9/13.
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R A.

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Looking forward to the update on this. Paper map isn't a dealbreaker for me personally, but it's great to see you try to get over that "production value" hump that is so important to getting a game on the table.
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Nick Storm
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What's the exact Cave board dimensions?

@ 24" long

X

@ 18" wide

?
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nathan hayden
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Okay I found out the cost. Let us know if we should put it up.

The board will be 24 x 18. Linen Lamination. It will be a 2 sided board. The side with The Pit, and a black rock side (no Pit). The black side will be made as a "just in case" this might help with some expansions and variants. MSRP would be $20, but with Pre-sale we can do $15.

We would need to get 135 extra order on our pre-order page, which is roughly 600. Nightly we divide our totals by 75 to get our pre-order number, so the 15 spent on this goes toward that nightly number.

We can add to orders already made, but it will add shipping weight.

Let us know if we should set up an order page.

PLEASE NOTE: The board is a separate component. It will not be in the Reprint. It will be an item you may choose to purchase separately.


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Jason
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I want one!!!
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Jordan Fraser
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I will definitely add one to my order. Thanks!
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