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Empire of the Sun» Forums » Rules

Subject: Still confused about supply/attrition rss

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JOE LIBRANDI
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Is the only way that units are supplied through supplied HQs? If units are in a supply eligible port that is supplied, are they reduced/removed through attrition if out of HQ range?

For instance, if the HQ in Manila is removed, are all the Allied units on the map removed/reduced through attrition if they're not in range of the HQs in Oahu or Singapore?
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Chuck Parrott
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I'm still learning myself, so someone may be in to correct me. The way I read it is that you check unit supply. If you can't trace to a qualifying HQ per 7.53 you suffer attrition. Full strength flipped, reduced strength eliminated. However, if you are in range of any friendly HQ with a path that can go throu ZOI's or enemy units, then reduced units are not eliminated. Full strength would still be flipped though as OOS.

Don't forget that air units in danger of elmination could be withdrawn to come in as reinforcements with the play of an OC card.
 
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JOE LIBRANDI
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True, but I believe there are only three Allied HQs on the map on turn 2. If the one in the Philippines is removed, most of the units on the map are unsupplied and quite a few will be eliminated by attrition if I'm reading the rule correctly.
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Chuck Parrott
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I guess that's why taking the Arcadia Conference card for turn 2 can be so important, it brings the ABDA HQ in which can save a lot of the units in DEI and the Philippines.
 
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JOE LIBRANDI
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But my question remains: do all these units get reduced or removed?
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Greig Goodfellow
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First , if your units are actually out of supply they are reduced. If there is a hq which is within range PERIOD they would not be eliminated.
So any HQ in range will keep a reduced unit from being eliminated. The range is not effected by enemy zoi.
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Mark Evans
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joe6778 wrote:
Is the only way that units are supplied through supplied HQs?


Yes.

Quote:
If units are in a supply eligible port that is supplied, are they reduced/removed through attrition if out of HQ range?


Yes.

Quote:
For instance, if the HQ in Manila is removed, are all the Allied units on the map removed/reduced through attrition if they're not in range of the HQs in Oahu or Singapore?


Yes.
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Chuck Parrott
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Since we're on this topic, I do have a follow up question. The way I read 13.4 is that all unsupplied full strength units get reduced. Then all reduced units not within range of any friendly HQ but still OOS get removed. This does mean that a unit can go from full to removed in one attrition phase correct? It seems you would reverse the steps in 13.4 if units only suffered 1 step loss max per attrition phase.

Also is the saving range 'as the crow flies' or must it follow legit paths of land or sea or through ports if moving overland and sea combined? (I know it gets to ignore ZOI and enemy units) If the latter can it use enemy controlled ports? I would guess no.
 
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Mark Evans
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cparrott wrote:
The way I read 13.4 is that all unsupplied full strength units get reduced. Then all reduced units not within range of any friendly HQ but still OOS get removed.


I can see how you might read it that way based on the sequence in the rules. I have never read it that way.

Quote:
This does mean that a unit can go from full to removed in one attrition phase correct?


No

Quote:
It seems you would reverse the steps in 13.4 if units only suffered 1 step loss max per attrition phase.


I didn't read 13.4 as a sequence, but a series of statements.

Quote:
Also is the saving range 'as the crow flies' or must it follow legit paths of land or sea or through ports if moving overland and sea combined?


I believe this is the activation range (7.52).

Quote:
(I know it gets to ignore ZOI and enemy units) If the latter can it use enemy controlled ports? I would guess no.


This is traced like activation range, rather than supply, so ports are not part of the equation.
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Chuck Parrott
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Thanks Mark, I read 13.4 over and over and couldn't figure the max 1 step attrition from just reading. On one hand it made sense to limit the loss but on the other hand, we're talking 4 month spans so not unreasonable to consider a unit, especially land based air, to become totally combat ineffective in that period without supply.

I think you're right on the range, what kept throwing me is the play note at the end of 7.52 about 4 kinds of paths and I guess I was reading as 4 different types of ranges and over thinking it.
 
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Mark Evans
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Spend some time with it. It will absorb into your being at some point. It takes some time.
 
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Chuck Parrott
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Oh definitely, I've been reading and re-reading the rules and articles on it along with pushing pieces around via vassal. I've gotten to play a couple of ftf sessions but time prevented us from getting far into it. I want to have all the nuances down as best as I can so the next ftf game can focus on playing and not figuring out rules.
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Jesse Escobedo
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I am having trouble with this very concept right now. With no HQ in range, my units SITTING ON AN ULTIMATE SUPPLY SOURCE are still reduced? The only explanation I can think of is that without leadership they loose their fighting edge?
 
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Francisco Colmenares
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Think of it this way without an HQ they are an uncoordinated force with a broken down logistics train.

Also this is a very abstract command and control representation unless you think Japan really only had 3 headquarters in the entire war.
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