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1830: Railways & Robber Barons» Forums » General

Subject: Pokerchips, Excel sheet, PC-program, or paper money? // Playing aids? rss

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Lucas Smith
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Hey guys,
What type of money do you use when playing an 18xx???
Poker chips seem far better than paper money (like in monopoly), I guess.
I know, that some use an excel sheet or PC programm to track the money.
I personally think, that this takes away a part of the "feeling", but may speed up the game. What do you think/use???? Any other methods??

I don´t know how to set up a "multiple choice election" in a post. Could somebody tell me how to or set up one himself (herself)?? Would be nice!

Thank you for your thoughts!

( I posted this in 1830, because this seems to be a very popular 18xx title, but is there a general 18xx forum as well?? I won´t link this to every single 18xx title)
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Lacombe
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Re: Pokerchips, Excel sheet, PC-program, or paper money?
There are a number of tedious tasks which slow down the game:

- Simply handling the currency and making change
- Calculating, remembering, and updating route values
- Calculating dividend payouts per player based on holdings

Poker chips help with the first of these tasks only, but immensely so.

For the second and third, I recommend a dividend tracker like this one.
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Lucas Smith
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Re: Pokerchips, Excel sheet, PC-program, or paper money?
the dividend tracker, you mentioned, looks nice, I´ve just downloaded it and will try. Simple 1x1 table, but probably quite helpful! Replaces the dividend tracker printed on (some of the) boards, I guess?!

Keep posting!
 
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Lacombe
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Re: Pokerchips, Excel sheet, PC-program, or paper money?
Is there a dividend tracker on any of the boards? I don't think I own a game with one.

Anyway, it's something separate [obviously] from the stock market, if that wasn't clear.

 
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Lucas Smith
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Re: Pokerchips, Excel sheet, PC-program, or paper money?
NateStraight wrote:
Is there a dividend tracker on any of the boards? I don't think I own a game with one.

Anyway, it's something separate [obviously] from the stock market, if that wasn't clear.



1. 18EU (actually the only 18xx I own) has one, but never mind!
2. Of course!

But now back to topic!
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Ingo Griebsch
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Re: Pokerchips, Excel sheet, PC-program, or paper money?
Poker chips, a really good banker and maybe some paper to notice the payouts during the operation rounds is all you need.

Just my two cents...
 
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Brandon M
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Re: Pokerchips, Excel sheet, PC-program, or paper money?
NateStraight wrote:
Is there a dividend tracker on any of the boards? I don't think I own a game with one.

Anyway, it's something separate [obviously] from the stock market, if that wasn't clear.



Deep Thought boards have them, and probably other small publishers. Mayfair's games don't.

Example:
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Lucas Smith
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Re: Pokerchips, Excel sheet, PC-program, or paper money?
still waiting for further opinions and someone to set up an election
 
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John Buckland
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Re: Pokerchips, Excel sheet, PC-program, or paper money?
Sorry, can't help with the poll

I've never used a program, but chips are way faster than paper money. The $2 denominations also help.

Our group writes down the payouts each round.

On a related note, found a timer really helps speed up play.

A question for the computer users:
Do you pass out cash at the end of an operating round (or sets)?
Or at the end of a stock round?

Or computer only?

 
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Re: Pokerchips, Excel sheet, PC-program, or paper money?
Anything but paper money.
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J C Lawrence
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Re: Pokerchips, Excel sheet, PC-program, or paper money?
smithlucas wrote:
What type of money do you use when playing an 18xx???


First preference is Lemmi's moderator (which automates everything other than the map, track and tokens) with a skilled/fast driver. Next is either a spreadsheet (or similar electronic automation that isn't Rails) or poker chips. Anything else and the game is not worth playing.

Quote:
I know, that some use an excel sheet or PC programm to track the money. I personally think, that this takes away a part of the "feeling", but may speed up the game.


I play the game, not my feelings.

Quote:
( I posted this in 1830, because this seems to be a very popular 18xx title, but is there a general 18xx forum as well?? I won´t link this to every single 18xx title)


Yes, use the 18xx family.

NateStraight wrote:
There are a number of tedious tasks which slow down the game:

- Simply handling the currency and making change
- Calculating, remembering, and updating route values
- Calculating dividend payouts per player based on holdings

Poker chips help with the first of these tasks only, but immensely so.


Actually poker chips also fractionally improve the second and can improve the third.

Quote:
For the second and third, I recommend a dividend tracker like this one.


The more I play the 18xx the less useful I find dividend trackers. I rarely bother to use them even on the games that come with them, certainly not before the final permanent trains come out.

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Roger Rigby
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Re: Pokerchips, Excel sheet, PC-program, or paper money?
smithlucas wrote:
Hey guys,
What type of money do you use when playing an 18xx???
Poker chips seem far better than paper money (like in monopoly), I guess.
I know, that some use an excel sheet or PC programm to track the money.
I personally think, that this takes away a part of the "feeling", but may speed up the game. What do you think/use???? Any other methods??

I don´t know how to set up a "multiple choice election" in a post. Could somebody tell me how to or set up one himself (herself)?? Would be nice!

Thank you for your thoughts!

( I posted this in 1830, because this seems to be a very popular 18xx title, but is there a general 18xx forum as well?? I won´t link this to every single 18xx title)


I always use mini poker chips. We have played with "Rails" and while it does a nice job at speeding up the game, I really hate that it always shows exactly who is winning and by how much.

I am looking into setting up a poll.
 
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Roger Rigby
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Re: Pokerchips, Excel sheet, PC-program, or paper money?
NateStraight wrote:
There are a number of tedious tasks which slow down the game:

- Simply handling the currency and making change
- Calculating, remembering, and updating route values
- Calculating dividend payouts per player based on holdings

Poker chips help with the first of these tasks only, but immensely so.

For the second and third, I recommend a dividend tracker like this one.


Shameless plug alert: My wife and daughter started a small business, Board Game Innovation that makes a laser engraved dividend tracker for 18XX and token sets for several of the titles that do not have it integrated into the map. 18xx Dividend Tracker



I use it in every game I play, as it eliminates the never ending question, "How much did you run for last time?"
 
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Roger Rigby
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Re: Pokerchips, Excel sheet, PC-program, or paper money?
Poll
What type of money do you use when playing 18xx???
Paper Money
Poker Chips (Regulation Size)
Poker Chips (Mini)
Spreadsheet
Rails
Smart Phone/Tablet Ap
Other
      61 answers
Poll created by mobilecad
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Lucas Smith
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Re: Pokerchips, Excel sheet, PC-program, or paper money?
Great! The discussion becomes more and more interesting. J C Lawrence, I´ve waited for your answer! Lemmis program is nice, but unluckily it doesn´t feature all 18xxes (what the plural?) , e.g. not 18EU (the one I prefer at the moment)
Does anybody have a nice Excel sheet suitable also for 18EU (In excel I can edit the comp.´s names)??

I think we have the consensus, that paper money is very bad, so you don´t need to point that out again. The question is poker chips, pc.moderator or excel sheet??? Or are there any different methods??

(J C L. : I think there is a difference between players (like me) who play only some 18xx and players (like you) who have probably played hundreds of 18xx games, so you found your way, and of course in the long run you saved A LOT time by using your best methods, I think, it´s also a question of the motivation of playing an 18xx: If it is your 50th game and you just want to improve your strategies, you don´t care as much about the ... athmosphere of the game as a newbie will!! And for me there is definitely something like athmosphere, feeling,... not in an emotional way, but you know, for example at poker games it is also an important part!)

Roger Rigby: Thanks for setting up the poll!! Please take part everybody!!
Rails seem to allow playing completely without a copy, right?
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António Vale
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Re: Pokerchips, Excel sheet, PC-program, or paper money?
In my experience, the single biggest delay in making payments is the need to make change: because the limited bank size involves limited amounts of any single denomination, you find that you're constantly running out.

While poker chips help, as they make handling easier, I found that using an excel spreadsheet to track payments is the biggest timesaver in this respect: you just note the different runs and make a single payout to each player just before the stock round, which is when they need the money. As an extra plus, it keeps track of previous runs as well.

I wouldn't like to use the spreadsheet exclusively though, as I like to have the pile of money in front of me and play with the chips while I wait for my turn

You can try having a look at the spreadsheet I put into the files section, it's simple but flexible enough to use with different games and different share structures (5, 10 and 20 share companies, for example).
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Roger Rigby
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Re: Pokerchips, Excel sheet, PC-program, or paper money?
smithlucas wrote:

Roger Rigby: Thanks for setting up the poll!! Please take part everybody!!
Rails seem to allow playing completely without a copy, right?


You are very welcome. If you need to create one in the future just hit the green check mark under the emoticons.

You are correct that Rails is self contained and allows you to play on a computer without having a copy of the game. Two caveats: Not all of the 18XX titles are available, and there are a few hiccups in the rules application.
 
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J C Lawrence
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Re: Pokerchips, Excel sheet, PC-program, or paper money?
smithlucas wrote:
Lemmis program is nice, but unluckily it doesn´t feature all 18xxes (what the plural?) , e.g. not 18EU (the one I prefer at the moment)


Lemmi's moderator supports 18EU (I'm not sure how complete the support is, but it is among the listed/supported games).

Quote:
Does anybody have a nice Excel sheet suitable also for 18EU (In excel I can edit the comp.´s names)??


Check the 18xx mailing list's repository.

avale wrote:
In my experience, the single biggest delay in making payments is the need to make change: because the limited bank size involves limited amounts of any single denomination, you find that you're constantly running out.


That's silly and unnecessary. Provide a bank which is clearly larger than needed, distribute it about the table so that all players may easily bank for themselves, and then only check bank-size as the end-game approaches.
 
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Dave Berry
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Re: Pokerchips, Excel sheet, PC-program, or paper money?
If using chips rather than a spreadsheet, make the person operating a company responsible for ensuring that all dividends are paid, rather than requiring everyone to take their own dividends. That way, if someone is planning their next move, they don't have to interrupt their train of thought to handle the administrative task.

Put the income paid by a company on each player's set of shares in that company. This makes it easy to see whether a payment has been missed.
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António Vale
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Re: Pokerchips, Excel sheet, PC-program, or paper money?
clearclaw wrote:
That's silly and unnecessary. Provide a bank which is clearly larger than needed, distribute it about the table so that all players may easily bank for themselves, and then only check bank-size as the end-game approaches.
That's actually a pretty good point, but unless you have access to a lot of poker chips (certainly a lot more than what my group usually has), I think you'll still be running into the problem, and in any case it should be quicker to make a single payment.
 
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Samuel Hinz
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Re: Pokerchips, Excel sheet, PC-program, or paper money?
I've been playing Poseidon with poker chips. And did the same for a learning game of 1830. I really need some more chips in different colours though.

JC could you explain or post a picture of a physical (written) spreadsheet you use.

I've written stuff up for the final rounds of Poseidon but I'm sure it could be done so much better.
 
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Re: Pokerchips, Excel sheet, PC-program, or paper money?
daveberry wrote:
If using chips rather than a spreadsheet, make the person operating a company responsible for ensuring that all dividends are paid, rather than requiring everyone to take their own dividends.


Oh dear no. Tried that, and that's much slower here than having everyone bank for themselves.
 
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Re: Pokerchips, Excel sheet, PC-program, or paper money?
abodi wrote:
JC could you explain or post a picture of a physical (written) spreadsheet you use.


We use a paper spreadsheet for computing the last rounds of games. An example:



For other spreadsheets I rely on ~25 contributed Google Doc spreadsheets that I've collected from various sources:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B2MZEaSEKjnJRFd4dkR2...

In the cases in which we don't have time to calculate out the spreadsheet I then transfer that to a GoogleDoc and post that file to the mailing list. eg:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmMZEaSEKjnJdFh...
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Lucas Smith
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Re: Pokerchips, Excel sheet, PC-program, or paper money?
clearclaw wrote:


Oh dear no. Tried that, and that's much slower here than having everyone bank for themselves.


How do you make this possibble? Does every player have his/her own bank? Is the bank positionated in a way everybody can reach it (should be difficult, since in the middle of the table naturally other things have to lay)?


And "what" is your bank?? For example, I simply use my poker suitcase, which takes pretty much place on the table.
 
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Brandon M
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Re: Pokerchips, Excel sheet, PC-program, or paper money?
smithlucas wrote:
clearclaw wrote:


Oh dear no. Tried that, and that's much slower here than having everyone bank for themselves.


How do you make this possibble? Does every player have his/her own bank? Is the bank positionated in a way everybody can reach it (should be difficult, since in the middle of the table naturally other things have to lay)?


And "what" is your bank?? For example, I simply use my poker suitcase, which takes pretty much place on the table.


Split the bank so there is money on both sides of the board. Everyone can reach.
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