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Subject: Combat Question rss

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Jason Preder
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I'm fairly certain I know the answer, but the Lost Legends rulebook isn't entirely clear.
When you engage in combat with a monster, the rulebook says there are two possible outcomes, the monster is defeated or you are defeated.
The example shows the hero getting multiple attacks, but the rules state you get one attack and then it is the next players turn.
I'm guesing there is a third option, you have attacked the monster, it attacks back, and it remains in front of you until your next turn. At this point you would have the option of moving this monster to an opponent, or continuing your attacks until you or the monster is defeated.

Does this sound correct to anyone with experience playing the game?

Also, as a side note, I found it mildly amusing that the events for Lost Legends at GenCon require a minimal understanding of how to play the game. This seems highly unlikely, as most people will not have received their copy in the next 2 weeks :-)

 
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Cameron McKenzie
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The only rule book copy I've seen is incomplete and actually doesn't explain the resolution phase, but from what I gather, this seems correct.

I'm guessing that the GenCon events are listed that way so as to avoid people signing up without ever having even heard of the game!
 
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Jason Preder
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MasterDinadan wrote:
The only rule book copy I've seen is incomplete and actually doesn't explain the resolution phase, but from what I gather, this seems correct.

I'm guessing that the GenCon events are listed that way so as to avoid people signing up without ever having even heard of the game!


Since I received the game yesterday and have the final rulebook, it apparently isn't clear either. Hopefully I'll get some plays in this weekend and I'll see what works out.

Maybe someone from Queen will answer as well.
 
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Cameron McKenzie
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People are already receiving the game? I haven't even gotten my survey yet in order to provide shipping info! surprise
 
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Cameron McKenzie
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Well nevermind... I apparently filled out the survey, and since it shows my new address, I did so recently... blush
 
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Jason Preder
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MasterDinadan wrote:
People are already receiving the game? I haven't even gotten my survey yet in order to provide shipping info! surprise


I seem to be one of the first to receive it, or at least the first to mention it on BGG or KS. It came as a complete shock, as I had no notice, and no update from KS or BGG. Pleasant surprise though.
 
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Christopher Boat
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This is my understanding, at the beginning of the combat phase after everyone has had a monster dealt face-up in front of them-


1.If you do not have a monster in front of you, you must either draw a new one from the monster deck or take the face-up monster from the center. If you chose to draw from the deck or you already had a monster in front of you, you may pass the monster to a player that does not have a monster in front of them.
2. You attack
3. If the monster was defeated, award gold, experience, etc. If the monster survived the attack, it now attacks you.
4. If you survive, your turn ends. If you are defeated, you sacrifice a skill and are out of the rest of the combat round.

Repeat steps 1 through 4.

Now, one question I have is how the card Polymorph is handled. It seems like it burns through the monster deck really fast. Basically discards 3 monsters, which is a 1/4th the deck. If another player uses Polymorph that's half the deck gone. Certainly not much room to level up or gain gold with the remaining monsters.
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Erik Brammer
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I could be wrong, as I don't have the card in front of me, but I thought that Polymorph drew from the reserve deck, not the main deck.
 
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David Miller
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Polymorph is from reserves. At least accoring to the card, but the card explanation book that came with the game says "returns his current monster to the game box and draws 3 monster from the current monster card pile. He picks one of these monster and places it in front of his hero board, then shuffles the two remaining cards into the monster card pile."

I kinda like the explanation better than the card, but it's so drastically different.
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Christopher Boat
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warpi9 wrote:
Polymorph is from reserves. At least accoring to the card, but the card explanation book that came with the game says "returns his current monster to the game box and draws 3 monster from the current monster card pile. He picks one of these monster and places it in front of his hero board, then shuffles the two remaining cards into the monster card pile."

I kinda like the explanation better than the card, but it's so drastically different.


I like the idea of shuffling them back in better too. Such a huge difference.
 
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Cameron McKenzie
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RhodesN7 wrote:
warpi9 wrote:
Polymorph is from reserves. At least accoring to the card, but the card explanation book that came with the game says "returns his current monster to the game box and draws 3 monster from the current monster card pile. He picks one of these monster and places it in front of his hero board, then shuffles the two remaining cards into the monster card pile."

I kinda like the explanation better than the card, but it's so drastically different.


I like the idea of shuffling them back in better too. Such a huge difference.


What an annoying error! I will probably play with Polymorph as written, so I don't have to explain this to someone who picks it the first time they play.
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Cameron McKenzie
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Looks like Magic Bandages and Mana Potion are misprinted as well..
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Erik Brammer
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MasterDinadan wrote:
Looks like Magic Bandages and Mana Potion are misprinted as well..


I noticed that too in the card summary, but I think Magic Bandages might be correct on the card. It gives an example in the rulebook of Magic Bandages keeping a player from losing his last life point in combat. I suppose it makes thematic sense too, given that they're bandages.

As for Mana Potion...I got nothing. That just makes no sense for a player to gain life from a Mana Potion. Until I see errata from Queen, I'll probably go by what the card guide says for Mana Potion and what the card actually says for Magic Bandages.
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David Miller
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Man this looks like a good game, and Queen is a good publisher, but out of nearly 12 kickstarters I've done, this one has some of the worst mistakes.
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Dan Patriss
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MilkFromACow wrote:

Also, as a side note, I found it mildly amusing that the events for Lost Legends at GenCon require a minimal understanding of how to play the game. This seems highly unlikely, as most people will not have received their copy in the next 2 weeks :-)



It's ok I have played my KS copy and I don't have a mild understanding of how to play.

In all seriousness though Queen is know for their brutal rule books. I came away from reading it clueless about the challenge tokens and pretty clueless about the beginning and passing in some of those phases.

Also like some above have said the cards too are a bit confusing.

I almost want to stand behind one of those events or pay the 2 bucks for someone to teach it to me.
 
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Patrick Reynolds
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This game has one of the worst rulebooks I've read in some time. It's got some pretty bad errors and is very unclear on a lot of things. For an established publisher like Queen I'd expect better quali where proofreading and rules checking is concerned.

Also, as far as I know, English is designers Mike Elliott's native language so they can't really use the excuse that it's a poor translation of the rules from another language. EDIT: Actually, this is apparently exactly the situation. I just got a PM letting me know that Queen translated the game into German for playtesters, and then translated the revised rules back into English afterward. So, that makes a lot more sense now. I can think of at least one recent game where the rulebook was translated from original French into English and had some issues, but is still easier to follow than this one.

Queen needs to get an F.A.Q. out ASAP.
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Patrick Reynolds
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GeekJock wrote:
MilkFromACow wrote:

Also, as a side note, I found it mildly amusing that the events for Lost Legends at GenCon require a minimal understanding of how to play the game. This seems highly unlikely, as most people will not have received their copy in the next 2 weeks :-)



It's ok I have played my KS copy and I don't have a mild understanding of how to play.

In all seriousness though Queen is know for their brutal rule books. I came away from reading it clueless about the challenge tokens and pretty clueless about the beginning and passing in some of those phases.

Also like some above have said the cards too are a bit confusing.

I almost want to stand behind one of those events or pay the 2 bucks for someone to teach it to me.


We struggled through our first game with three players earlier today. I think we did things right, not I can't really say that with 100% confidence because the rulebook is so bad.

Despite the issues, we all really liked the game. It's really good; the theme is great, the art is great and once you wrap your head around how it all works it flows pretty smoothly.

The problem with paying for a demo event at Gen Con is even then you might get a volunteer who is as clueless as you are about the game.
 
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Jason Preder
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pkreynolds wrote:
GeekJock wrote:
MilkFromACow wrote:

Also, as a side note, I found it mildly amusing that the events for Lost Legends at GenCon require a minimal understanding of how to play the game. This seems highly unlikely, as most people will not have received their copy in the next 2 weeks :-)



It's ok I have played my KS copy and I don't have a mild understanding of how to play.

In all seriousness though Queen is know for their brutal rule books. I came away from reading it clueless about the challenge tokens and pretty clueless about the beginning and passing in some of those phases.

Also like some above have said the cards too are a bit confusing.

I almost want to stand behind one of those events or pay the 2 bucks for someone to teach it to me.


We struggled through our first game with three players earlier today. I think we did things right, not I can't really say that with 100% confidence because the rulebook is so bad.

Despite the issues, we all really liked the game. It's really good; the theme is great, the art is great and once you wrap your head around how it all works it flows pretty smoothly.

The problem with paying for a demo event at Gen Con is even then you might get a volunteer who is as clueless as you are about the game.


There is much truth to this. I found it easier to get a partial demo at the booth for most games. Unfortunately, I feel that although I really love the theme and artwork, the unbalanced drafting mechanic is just not fun and too wildly game breaking. This one has already in the auction pile for later this year.
 
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Patrick Reynolds
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MilkFromACow wrote:
Unfortunately, I feel that although I really love the theme and artwork, the unbalanced drafting mechanic is just not fun and too wildly game breaking.


Out of curiosity, what did you find unbalanced about the drafting? I played this earlier today and really enjoyed it. I didn't do very well in the first two rounds but was able to rally and come back strong in the third round and win the game. I felt like there were always good choices in my hand during the draft, but that money management is pretty key (it's easy to get locked into a certain weapon type because of the discounts if you're low on gold).

But I really had a lot of fun with the game, once we got past some early rules clarifications and whatnot. I think after a few more plays there will be some emergent strategies and we might see a bit more card denial play to keep people from making dominant combos and things like that.

I do think that the game needs more cards. I'd like to see an expansion that brings the draft up to 7 cards dealt/6 cards played each round and adds some more options into the game.
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Christopher Boat
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I've only played three times, but I can kind of see people's complaints about the balance. There are definitely wild swings of difficulty in this game, and luck of the draw plays a pretty big part. I always felt like I was either completely dominating or totally hopeless.

Most of my complaints with the game could easily be solved by a small card expansion. Some extra variety with the monsters and items could go a long way. Perhaps a smoother mechanic to dodge devastating monsters, or steal monsters away from another player? Just a bit more control, I guess.

Overall, I'm still having a blast with the game. I'd be first in line for a Lost Legends expansion.
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Jason Preder
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RhodesN7 wrote:
I've only played three times, but I can kind of see people's complaints about the balance. There are definitely wild swings of difficulty in this game, and luck of the draw plays a pretty big part. I always felt like I was either completely dominating or totally hopeless.

Most of my complaints with the game could easily be solved by a small card expansion. Some extra variety with the monsters and items could go a long way. Perhaps a smoother mechanic to dodge devastating monsters, or steal monsters away from another player? Just a bit more control, I guess.

Overall, I'm still having a blast with the game. I'd be first in line for a Lost Legends expansion.


Exactly this. Characters start with very low health, and if you are dealt a baddie in the first round of monsters it is likely to be over for you on the first attack. If you're a wizard (or whatever) with 3 health and you failed to get the appropriate armor, it is usually game over. You might be able to recover for the 2nd dungeon level, but now you will be behind, as other players are in a better position overall for trophies, etc...that is, if they manage to survive.
I feel this short sightedness in the game is game breaking, or very near game breaking. They need more ways to mitigate incoming damage, especially since the monsters are completely random, and you could get the worst in the stack for your first attack.
There are just too many other games that don't suffer from this wildly random preparation mechanic which is essential to the fun you'll have during a round.
In another thread, I suggested that maybe during the draft you could discard an equipment for a bonus life or magic. This could help survive that first blow if you don't get the ideal armor or weapon you will need to survive. Maybe they need a die to "help" you along or at least give you a chance in some hopeless encounters. It really needs something to help with the random toughness.
Either way though, I found it not worth my time, as I have stockpile of games I just brought home from GenCon.
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