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Subject: Common rule variant: Exact bid penalty rss

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Ender Wiggins
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The "Perudo" edition of the game states that if the number of dice matches or exceeds what was bid, the person who unsuccessfully challenged the bid must lose one die. The "Bluff" and "Liars Dice" editions state that if the bidder is exactly correct, all players except the bidder loses one die. The rules state the following:

Quote:
After counting the dice, determine who loses the challenge. This is done in the following way:
* If the actual amount of dice is more than the bid amount, the challenger loses the challenge.
* If the actual amount of dice is less than the bid amount, the bidder loses the challenge.
* If the actual amount of dice is exactly the bid amount, everyone except the bidder loses the challenge!

This third rule is not present in the Perudo edition. So with the "Liars Dice" edition quoted above, the exact bid penalty affects all players, not just the challenger. Is this an improvement, or is the Perudo rule of just the challenger losing a die the best version to play with? It seems to me that it should just be the challenger who is penalized when an exact bid is revealed, because it is somewhat unfair to the other players if they are also penalized by losing a dice. So I'm inclined to go with the Perudo version of the rules on this.

I'm wondering what other players think about this rule variation, and which way you play and why.


 
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Daniel Karp
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Re: Common rule variant: Exact bid penalty - your thoughts?
I usually play with the exact bid penalty, but now I think I favor what we refer to as the "Josh variant," named for the person in our group who suggested it. On an exact bid, the person who called the bid gives one die to the person who made the exact bid.
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Matthew M
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Re: Common rule variant: Exact bid penalty - your thoughts?
dakarp wrote:
I usually play with the exact bid penalty, but now I think I favor what we refer to as the "Josh variant," named for the person in our group who suggested it. On an exact bid, the person who called the bid gives one die to the person who made the exact bid.


This is how we play as well and it works very nicely. The other players aren't punished (directly) for something they had no control over, yet the player who made the spot-on bid still has a one-die advantage over the field that he didn't have prior to the round.

-MMM
 
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Luca Iennaco
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Re: Common rule variant: Exact bid penalty - your thoughts?
I've only played Perudo and I'm perfectly satisfied with it as it is. After reading this "variant", I'm not impressed by it and I'm not going to try it.
Have fun! meeple
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Mark McEvoy
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Re: Common rule variant: Exact bid penalty - your thoughts?
Octavian wrote:

This is how we play as well and it works very nicely. The other players aren't punished (directly) for something they had no control over, yet the player who made the spot-on bid still has a one-die advantage over the field that he didn't have prior to the round.

-MMM


I don't get why the 'challenger' is being doubly punished here (giving up a 2-die advantage to one other player), when under most circumstances (the group has already identified the most common die and the current bid is at the threshold of that die), he *also* had no control over things. If the last bidder was exact, the challenger was placed in a no-win situation - to challenge would be to lose, and to increase the bid would most likely also be to lose. I think that's the rationale behind the "punish everyone equally when the bid is exact" rule - the challenger was in just as much of a no-control situation as everyone else. An exact bid is generally beyond improvement. The rules exist to punish miscalculation and misplay (generally, you get punished when you make a bid when you should have challenged, or you make a challenge when you could have bid). The challenger here *had* no 'right play', and in this instance is being doubly punsihed for his... unfortunate place in turn order?
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Matthew M
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Re: Common rule variant: Exact bid penalty - your thoughts?
The challenger could have increased the bid by one, or gone to a star bid, and in either case reveal a die to reroll in hopes of soldifying the new bid.

The challenger is only doubly-punished in relation to the player who made the correct bid. To all other players he is down a single-die for making an incorrect challenge.

-MMM
 
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dsr15
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Here's a 'perfect bid' variant to try.

If a player is challenged and is shown to have a perfect bid, the bidding player has the choice of either following normal consequences (challenger loses a die) or getting a die back from stock (but not over max starting dice).

This gives the perfect bidder nice options - punish the challenger or gain a leg up against the group as a whole. Also note, though, that this option would not be allowed when you're down to only 2 remaining players. (It wouldn't make sense then anyway, but we want the game to go toward it's conclusion, not away from it).

A nice side effect of this rule will be the colorful conversation surrounding this decision.

dsr
 
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Darryl Boone
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EndersGame wrote:
It seems to me that it should just be the challenger who is penalized when an exact bid is revealed, because it is somewhat unfair to the other players if they are also penalized by losing a dice.

I think it should be viewed not as a penalty on uninvolved players but as a reward for the exact bidder. Everyone else is "punished" but only relative to the exact bidder, so he is in effect rewarded with an extra die in relation to everyone else.

The only way I'd see it as an unfair penalty is that it would knock out players with only one die remaining. I'd think it fair that a player couldn't be knocked out unless he's lost a challenge, and I'd consider adding a variant that a player can't lose his last die in this situation unless he is the challenger. (EDIT: Which I notice has already been suggested, here.)
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Steve Gilbert
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My gaming group did not like being penalized for what was another person's mistake or a no win situation (e.g. you know they have the bid exactly right and anything you bid will automatically lose) so we came up with:


Exact Bid Variant

If a person gets the bid exactly right and is challenged they take a die from the losing player.

Example: Player 1 bid five 2's. Player 2 challenges. There were exactly five 2's so Player 2 must give Player 1 a die from their cup.


Double of Nothing

If a person thinks the bid is exactly right they can bid "Double of Nothing". If the bid is exactly right they take one die from the player who got the bid exactly right. If the bid is not exactly right the player bidding "Double or Nothing" loses two dice.

Example: Player 1 bid three 5's. Player 2 challenges by saying "Double or Nothing"

Player 1's Dice: 5, 3
Player 2's Dice: Skull, Skull

There were exactly three 5's, so Player 1 must give Player 2 a die.


"Double or Nothing" Last Die Rule

A person calling "Double or Nothing" cannot take the bidder's last die if they are right. Instead, if they are correct they take a bonus die from off the board.



 
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