Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
42 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » Religion, Sex, and Politics

Subject: And in local New York news... rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I take it NY also does not ban Marijuana?
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rusty McFisticuffs
United States
Arcata
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
such drinks, unlike communicable diseases, tainted food, and unsanitary water, are not inherently hazardous.

Rough time to be in advertising, since the ad practically writes itself.
18 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shawn Fox
United States
Richardson
Texas
flag msg tools
Question everything
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The ruling seems reasonable, I seriously doubt the NY legislature ever imagined that the Board of Health could use their powers to regulate serving sizes. So really just a separation of powers issue. It would be perfectly legal for the legislature to pass a law granting such powers to the Board of Health. It is not at all dissimilar to the EPA trying to regulate CO2.

That said, 50 years ago many (most?) would have argued that the state has no right to restrict smoking, but the proof of damage caused by second hand smoke changed all that. With the steady movement towards nationalized health care, no one should be surprised when the government starts telling them what they can eat in an attempt to reduce health care costs.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mirror, Mirror
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I heard there was going to be a big celebration over the ruling, but the people that were to attend have been advised by their doctors to avoid too much excitement.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Hoffman
United States
Cortlandt Manor
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Bloomberg's law was, well, silly, but his heart is in the right place. People DO drink too much soda, and drinking too much soda IS linked to obesity.

That's not really something you can legislate, of course. Just like you can't limit how many Big Macs people are allowed to eat in a day. So it goes.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave G
United States
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
El Chupacabratwurst
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ohbalto wrote:
Bloomberg's law was, well, silly, but his heart is in the right place. People DO drink too much soda, and drinking too much soda IS linked to obesity.

That's not really something you can legislate, of course. Just like you can't limit how many Big Macs people are allowed to eat in a day. So it goes.


Which is why, even if Bloomberg's "heart is in the right place," his efforts to make it a law were unconscionable.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David O'Neil
United States
Potsdam
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ohbalto wrote:
Bloomberg's law was, well, silly, but his heart is in the right place. People DO drink too much soda, and drinking too much soda IS linked to obesity.

That's not really something you can legislate, of course. Just like you can't limit how many Big Macs people are allowed to eat in a day. So it goes.


Another issue is that people disagree--sometimes drastically--about what constitutes a healthy diet. Even if we could agree that government should regulate foods that promote obesity, there still wouldn't be a justification for banning large soft drinks. It is merely an opinion that the current obesity epidemic is caused by our increased consumption of sugars, not a proven fact.

In fact, there are people who believe that sugar is perfectly healthy, and they can point to studies to support their viewpoint. It's very important that people be allowed to make their own health decisions, but especially in an area, such as nutrition, where our present knowledge is imperfect.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Derry Salewski
United States
Augusta
Maine
flag msg tools
badge
I'm only happy when it rains...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
psyche_athanatos wrote:
ohbalto wrote:
Bloomberg's law was, well, silly, but his heart is in the right place. People DO drink too much soda, and drinking too much soda IS linked to obesity.

That's not really something you can legislate, of course. Just like you can't limit how many Big Macs people are allowed to eat in a day. So it goes.


Another issue is that people disagree--sometimes drastically--about what constitutes a healthy diet. Even if we could agree that government should regulate foods that promote obesity, there still wouldn't be a justification for banning large soft drinks. It is merely an opinion that the current obesity epidemic is caused by our increased consumption of sugars, not a proven fact.

In fact, there are people who believe that sugar is perfectly healthy, and they can point to studies to support their viewpoint. It's very important that people be allowed to make their own health decisions, but especially in an area, such as nutrition, where our present knowledge is imperfect.


And who gets paid more money: Health Teachers in public schools or Advertising Depts?

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Belgium
flag msg tools
Meaningless means there's a strong limit to how much I can mess up!
badge
This overtext is not in use.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
galad2003 wrote:
don't you libs get, this is how Fascism starts? You take away some freedoms, but don't worry they are for your own good. Then you take away a few more an then some more.


We have a fair few examples of countries where Fascism started. In which places did it start like this?
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
galad2003 wrote:
I don't know many people who would argue that sugar is good for you.

However the point is freedom. I should have the freedom to consume any size beverage I want and a business should be free to sell any size they want.

It doesn't fucking matter how well intentioned the law it, it still takes away a basic freedom to be a fat ass pig if I so desire. don't you libs get, this is how Fascism starts? You take away some freedoms, but don't worry they are for your own good. Then you take away a few more an then some more.

No I don't believe Mayor Bloomberg is starting the fourth Reich and it all begins with his diabolical plans to take your large soda's away. But when people turn a blind eye to silly stuff like this it embolden's power hungry idiots to do more and more. Sometimes it's the principal that matter's. In this case it's a soda, tomorrow its your gun and the next day its your voting right, but remember it's all for you own good!
As long as you expect no one else to make allowances (or pay) for the fact you are a fat ass pig fine. But if you expect extra wide seats on buses (or want to take up more then one seat), thus denying me the ability to sit down I get the right to interfere in why you have to take up extra space.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mirror, Mirror
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
galad2003 wrote:
I don't know many people who would argue that sugar is good for you.

However the point is freedom. I should have the freedom to consume any size beverage I want and a business should be free to sell any size they want.


Yes, exactly... so what about protections for those of us that want to be able to buy reasonably sized beverages?

I mean, don't get me wrong, I care about as much that the law got overturned as I cared about the law in the first place. But the average size of soft drinks has continually gone up over the years.

In a movie theater, small now is what medium or large used to be. So, why can't I be allowed to have the option of not being a fatass? What's wrong with, at the very least, making sure that portion sizes don't continue to balloon?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shawn Fox
United States
Richardson
Texas
flag msg tools
Question everything
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have no problem with people eating whatever they want, but if we are going to nationalize health care (inevitable in my opinion) a big tax on sugar, fat, cholesterol, processed carbohydrates, and salt would go a long way towards both paying for the health care system and reducing health care expenses.

While there is no reason to believe the health nuts in regards to "organic" foods, corn syrup, etc, there is universal proof that excessive consumption of these substances lead directly to many different expensive health issues such as heart problems and diabetes. Salt is actually a bit questionable to include on the list, but for some people it does cause significant issues.

With that said, I freely admit that I consume too much of all of these things. The garbage foods taste good , they are dirt cheap, and they are extremely convenient. If the government is paying for health care, however, I have no problem with the government making shitty foods more expensive. Just as corporations should not have the right to pass negative externalities such as pollution on to everyone else, neither should citizens have the right to pass on the costs of their poor health decisions to everyone else.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mirror, Mirror
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
bjlillo wrote:

Don't you have any self control? The fast food places don't force you to clear your plate and drink all your soda.


It's wasteful and costly to pay for things you aren't going to use.

On the other hand, if you want to drink a gallon of soda, nobody's stopping you from buying multiple.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
galad2003 wrote:
das Andere wrote:
galad2003 wrote:
I don't know many people who would argue that sugar is good for you.

However the point is freedom. I should have the freedom to consume any size beverage I want and a business should be free to sell any size they want.


Yes, exactly... so what about protections for those of us that want to be able to buy reasonably sized beverages?

I mean, don't get me wrong, I care about as much that the law got overturned as I cared about the law in the first place. But the average size of soft drinks has continually gone up over the years.

In a movie theater, small now is what medium or large used to be. So, why can't I be allowed to have the option of not being a fatass? What's wrong with, at the very least, making sure that portion sizes don't continue to balloon?


Um..don't buy them? You do have the freedom of not being a fatass, you don't buy the soda or you buy the small soda. Or you don't shop at the store if they don't offer you the sizes you want. are you and Slater just arguing to argue or are you just being obtuse? I know Slater argues stupid shit just to argue it, his arguments are so fucking stupid they aren't worth addressing, but I would expect more from you Andere.

So you just decided to turn the argument around about freedom - Oh BUT WHAT ABOUT MY FREEDOM! Nice try, I see what you are doing but you still failed with your pathetic argument.

It's a business, they are not forcing you to buy a soda, you can chose what size you buy, that's the freedom. You still have your freedom to buy any size drink you want. You can still choose not to drink the whole soda too. Passing the law will not protect your freedom to buy a small soda. When the government gets involved there is no choice, you are forced to do something (or not do something in this case). Freedom is kept by less laws not more of them.

The law is fucking silly, I mean nothing is stopping me from getting 3 refills of my small drink cup or buying 12 soda's and drinking. So why even get into enforcing something so silly. It's a law for the sake of passing a law. And Bloomberg is too much of an idiot or has too much pride to realize it's a stupid fight and to just back down.

Really, do I need to spell this shit out for you guys?
But there are consequences (social and economic) that are associated with obesity. If you do not expect any special treatment or medical care as a result of our "freedom2 then find eat what he fuck you like. If you want society to make allowances for you being a greedy fat pig then society has a right to tell you to not be a greedy fat pig.

With freedom come responsibility.



 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mirror, Mirror
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
galad2003 wrote:

So you just decided to turn the argument around about freedom - Oh BUT WHAT ABOUT MY FREEDOM! Nice try, I see what you are doing but you still failed with your pathetic argument.


Yes, how silly of me to ask about protections for things I value. shake
You must be one of those True Conservatives I hear so much about.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Belgium
flag msg tools
Meaningless means there's a strong limit to how much I can mess up!
badge
This overtext is not in use.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
galad2003 wrote:
The law is fucking silly, I mean nothing is stopping me from getting 3 refills of my small drink cup or buying 12 soda's and drinking. So why even get into enforcing something so silly.


It is, at worse, silly. Not a leap into fascism, nor is it even really reducing anyone's actual freedom, as you point out here.

However, obesity is a serious issue in the US (and not just in the US), and I think there is a reasonable argument to be made for restricting products that are sugary/fatty to the point of long term danger.

The issue is perhaps similar to the restrictions against buying a dangerous amount of paracetamol in the UK. Sure, you can go back and buy more, but the fact that you can't buy it all at once in an easy package does work at reducing those trying to kill themselves in this way. Obviously oversized drinks are not immediately dangerous in this way, but what products businesses strongly push through up-selling is part of the obesity problem (though how much is arguable).

In any case, I don't think anyone can have a reasonable conversation about this if one side seems to think it's the first step toward fascism, which it obviously isn't. That's significantly more laughable than this law.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
designer
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
badge
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes, the law was silly but the attitude behind it, the idea that gov't can and should intrude into people's lives for their "own good" is a troubling one which is more and more common.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Belgium
flag msg tools
Meaningless means there's a strong limit to how much I can mess up!
badge
This overtext is not in use.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
whac3 wrote:
Yes, the law was silly but the attitude behind it, the idea that gov't can and should intrude into people's lives for their "own good" is a troubling one which is more and more common.


Well, it's the government intruding on a business for the good of it's customers. Which isn't the same thing, and something governments definitely should be doing sometimes.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
designer
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
badge
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Dolphinandrew wrote:
whac3 wrote:
Yes, the law was silly but the attitude behind it, the idea that gov't can and should intrude into people's lives for their "own good" is a troubling one which is more and more common.


Well, it's the government intruding on a business for the good of it's customers. Which isn't the same thing, and something governments definitely should be doing sometimes.

If it's an unsafe product, ban it or regulate it but this is not regulation in the usual sense.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Belgium
flag msg tools
Meaningless means there's a strong limit to how much I can mess up!
badge
This overtext is not in use.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
whac3 wrote:
If it's an unsafe product, ban it or regulate it but this is not regulation in the usual sense.


No, but it's not an 'unsafe product' in the usual sense either.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
galad2003 wrote:
Freedom Dictatorship


It's a scale see. Nope banning soda's doesn't make you Hitler or Stalin but it bumps you one step closer in the wrong direction.

When you pass a law it sets a precedent, law makers and courts use precedents to justify other similar laws and rulings. You can't let something slide because it is minor. Oh it's a soda no big deal. My point is, sure its a silly soda today but tomorrow it might be something bigger or more important.

Ban gay marriage and you guys are up in arms. How dare they take freedom from gays, they are equal. But it is ok to take the freedom to buy a drink? Freedom is freedom, whether it be a soft drink, gay marriage, speech or whatever. You can't allow them to slowly take your freedom's away. This is why I fully support gay marriage, they should have the freedom to be with who they want, and they should have equal rights to pursue their happiness.

Mosche understand this. The Jewish people have had their freedom take away many times and it always starts small.

Next point: The government takes away your freedom, not me - I don't have that power. Me being overweight doesn't take away your freedom. It only would take away your freedom if a law is passed requiring buses to have a seat for overweight people.

You having to pay for my medical expenses only would occur because the government forces tax payers to foot the bill if someone can't pay for their medical expenses.

See the government enforces its will by the use of force. If you resist they take your money, via force or throw you in jail via force. If you resist they can use physical violence to make you do what they say.

Now I know no one here approves of violence or using force to get your way. it is only appropriate in the most extreme circumstances, yet some of you are arguing the government has the right to use violent force to keep you from drinking a soda? Is that worth giving the government power to do that?!

I, as a citizen, don't have the power to take your freedom unless I physically assault you, in which case the government will use their power to throw my ass in jail.

Businesses don't have the power to make you drink a drink, you chose what to drink. Only the government has the real ultimate power to enforce their will on someone. Anytime they use that power we should be weary.

Or take up two seats and only pay for one, sorry but you are taking away my freedom to sit on the other seat. The same with flights, fat people take up more fuel, thus may take away my freedom to use that flight.

By the way businesses can force you to drink a drink, they can have exclusive sales contracts. OK you can go elsewhere, but they are still restricting freedom.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Belgium
flag msg tools
Meaningless means there's a strong limit to how much I can mess up!
badge
This overtext is not in use.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
galad2003 wrote:
Mosche understand this. The Jewish people have had their freedom take away many times and it always starts small.



Again, examples please?

In fact, it almost always never starts small. It generally starts smaller than rounding people up in their homes, but not that much smaller. It never starts with banning drinks.


No one is losing any great degree of freedom here. The business owners are losing some, but the customer can buy as much drink as they like. The business simply can't sell it in a certain way.


Arguing from a slippery slope just doesn't work here. Governments have been banning and unbanning all sorts of things for hundreds of years, yet the actual ability of people to live their lives however they choose to has increase massively in most places in the world in the last 200 years (though not uniformly).


People are up in arms against banning gay marriage because that has real serious affects on peoples lives. This doesn't. It is not surprising that people are passionately against one and vaguely annoyed (at most) by the other. That's not being hypocritical, that's having some sense of proportion.


Argue against these sorts of bans all you like. But it's not a matter of an absolutist moral position for anyone who has an even vaguely realistic view of how the world works. You are just brewing your own storm in a tea cup and then claiming the world is in peril. It isn't.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
designer
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
badge
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Actually it tends to start with singling Jews out somehow, often ostensibly for their protection.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J
United States
Hawaii
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
das Andere wrote:
bjlillo wrote:

Don't you have any self control? The fast food places don't force you to clear your plate and drink all your soda.


It's wasteful and costly to pay for things you aren't going to use.

Yeah, and do you know what is cheap, BJ? More government.

I believe the only "reasonable" size for a soda is 50 mL. I'd like to see new laws and a new enforcement agency to ensure that businesses offer the soda cup size I prefer.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mirror, Mirror
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jarredscott78 wrote:
das Andere wrote:
bjlillo wrote:

Don't you have any self control? The fast food places don't force you to clear your plate and drink all your soda.


It's wasteful and costly to pay for things you aren't going to use.

Yeah, and do you know what is cheap, BJ? More government.

I believe the only "reasonable" size for a soda is 50 mL. I'd like to see new laws and a new enforcement agency to ensure that businesses offer the soda cup size I prefer.


Derp, mer gubmint baad!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.