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Subject: Common rule variant: Reveal and Re-roll rss

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Ender Wiggins
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After bidding, the Bluff & Liars Dice rules state that a player can save one or more of his dice and reveal them (for the rest of the round), and then re-roll the rest of his remaining dice. This rule is not in the Perudo edition, but in the Liar's Dice edition is described as follows:
Quote:
The Show and Reroll Rule
Immediately after opening or raising a bid, you may place one or more of your dice outside of your dice cup for all players to see, then reroll and hide all of your remaining dice. Any rerolled dice that match your bid will count toward it. Showing and rerolling could improve your chances for winning a possible challenge.
You can show any amount of dice outside of your cup, as long as you have at least one die left to reroll. The dice you show don’t have to match your bid. They stay in view, outside your cup, for the rest of the round, and count toward the challenged bid if they match it.

A Show and Reroll Example
The bid is ten 6’s. You have four dice left: one 6, one Wild Star and two 4’s. You raise the bid to eleven 6’s; then you show your 6 and your Wild Star, and reroll your two 4’s.
If you’re challenged, the 6 and Wild Star outside your cup will count toward your bid — as well as any 6’s or Wild Stars you got by rerolling your 4’s!

I haven't played with this rule personally, but it seems to make sense as an optional additional rule for more experienced players. The re-roll element increases the likelihood of successfully making a higher bid, and the revealed dice give the other players more information about some of the dice that are in play. I'd think it's a good added twist when players are familiar with the basic game, but perhaps only as an optional rule. Any thoughts, experiences, recommendations on this?
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Sean T
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Re: Common rule variant: Reveal and Re-roll - your thoughts?
I always play with the show and re-roll rule. It gives you an out if you think the current bid is spot on.
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Richard Borg
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"SeanT"

I always play with the show and re-roll rule. It gives you an out if you think the current bid is spot on.

YEP!
Richard Borg
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Michael Becker
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Definitely - the option to bring out dice, increase the bid, and re-roll is by far the best way to play for everyone who has played at least one game! It lets you push the limits one step further. It also gives you at least a fighting chance if you are heavily outnumbered during the end game.

Have fun rollin'

Michael

 
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Greece
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can you make a bid and re-roll all of your dices?
 
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W. Eric Martin
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leandros wrote:
can you make a bid and re-roll all of your dices?

The quoted rules state that–

Quote:
Immediately after opening or raising a bid, you may place one or more of your dice outside of your dice cup for all players to see, then reroll and hide all of your remaining dice.

So you must place at least one die aside in order to reroll.

And although the rules don't specify that the dice placed outside your cup must match the value of your bid, that's the way we've always played. If you bid 5s, for example, and you want to reroll, then you must push out all your 5s and stars and you cannot push out anything else. As noted in the rules, you must have at least one die under your cup (to keep some mystery as to who has what), so you can't reveal and push out everything. I've never thought out allowing for someone to push out anything and any number of dice they choose, but in general more choices allow for more trickiness, so this rule should be a good thing!
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Tim Seitz
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EndersGame wrote:
Any thoughts, experiences, recommendations on this?

This is how I learned the game. Since I didn't have my own copy, I thought it was part of the official rules. It wasn't till I got on BSW that I discovered it was officially a popular variant.

Mechanically, I think it creates opportunity to react when you think the bid is on, but you can't go any higher.
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The other Euro guy
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Never heard of this before, but it sounds good. Thanks for reviving a 6 year old thread!
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Lacombe
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Quite the bizarre variant... it completely eliminates any information passed by any bids you'd made previously in the round. Seems to me it would dramatically increase the randomness of the game. :shrug:
 
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The other Euro guy
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NateStraight wrote:
Seems to me it would dramatically increase the randomness of the game. :shrug:

I haven't played this variant, so my reply needs to be taken with a suitably large pinch of salt.

I would have thought that putting some dice visible on the table makes the game less random - more information is available. This effect is surely more significant than the loss of whatever information might have been speculated from your previous bid.

Seems like a well thought out variant to me, because there is a strong disincentive to try this too frequently. Each time you put dice face up on the table you are increasing the pool of information available to everyone else and decreasing the pool of information that is available exclusively to you.
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Tim Seitz
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NateStraight wrote:
Quite the bizarre variant... it completely eliminates any information passed by any bids you'd made previously in the round. Seems to me it would dramatically increase the randomness of the game. :shrug:

Quite the opposite. It reveals and confirms information, reducing randomness. In a 5-player game there are 20 unknown dice. Once dice start to appear outside the cups, the amount of unknown dice drops.
 
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Matthew Wilde
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W Eric Martin wrote:
So you must place at least one die aside in order to reroll.

I have always interpreted the rules and played such that you are allowed to reroll all your dice without having to necessarily pull any out.

In addition to the rules you highlighted, the rules also state:
Quote:
You can show any amount of dice outside of your cup, as long as you have at least one die left to reroll.

I guess I've always taken 'any' to mean that it's inclusive to even 0.

If you don't allow to reroll without showing at least 1 die, that means players with only a single die left forfeit the option of the show and reroll rule. They are most likely already at a disadvantage and it would be even harder for them if they had to forfeit their option to reroll.

The rules also say:
Quote:
Showing and rerolling could improve your chances for winning a possible challenge.

If one of the purposes of the rule is to improve your chances of winning a possible challenge, why would a player with only 1 die not be allowed to improve their chances at a possible challenge while everyone else with more dice still can?

If the rules were written to not allow a reroll without showing at least 1 die, then I'm not sure I can see the purpose of that restriction. Other players still get a good amount of information from you from the play even if you don't show anything as it resets the odds under your cup and implies that you did not have any dice matching the raised bet.

In any case, I love playing with this optional rule and it adds some great depth to the game!

 
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