Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
12 Posts

Courtier» Forums » Rules

Subject: Unfair Game End rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Rob Gould
United Kingdom
Mansfield
Nottinghamshire
flag msg tools
badge
jestatharogue.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Firstly, I don't have a problem with this as I think it's thematic and I never found it annoying.

But, people I have played with don't like that the games ends as soon as "The Queen is Arrested" is revealed. Not so much that the games ends suddenly but that players take an uneven amount of turns.

Anyone else noticed this? Does it bother anyone?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian B.
United States
Boston
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
char(filter(1,[1 -1],[66 5 0 -39 82 -3 -12 8 8 -82]))
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I guess I've never thought of that part as unfair...there are plenty of games that end with people getting an uneven number of turns (to name a few, Settlers of Catan, Dominion, and Ticket to Ride.) The problem with it to me is that it's so sudden that it's hard to have any kind of real strategy, especially after 6 petitions have been completed. I wouldn't mind a "you get one more round after the queen is arrested" rule or somesuch.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Marshall
United Kingdom
York
North Yorkshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've played Courtier 2 or 3 times and no-one has raised this as an issue.

I think everyone gets enough turns that it's not a problem - if there were only 5 or 6 turns then it would be a problem.

Also the first few rounds are pretty slow - the game kicks into a higher gear when petitions start to be filled and the addiitonal white cubes start to come out.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rob Gould
United Kingdom
Mansfield
Nottinghamshire
flag msg tools
badge
jestatharogue.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
LiteBulb88 wrote:
I guess I've never thought of that part as unfair...


Me neither... but I'm hearing "I'm not playing that because..." from people
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lee Shelton

Charlotte
North Carolina
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
While for a normal game you're supposed to put the "Queen is Arrested!" card in the bottom half of the Fashion deck, I must confess that if I'm teaching it to new players I put it in the bottom quarter. For exactly the reason you allude to - if the card happens to be the very first card it could possibly be, it ends the game a little early for players who are just figuring out what's going on and how to best posture themselves.

Try to get them to play it again. To my group, this is one of the most universally liked games I've ever taught.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Derek H
South Africa
Johannesburg
Gauteng
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
LiteBulb88 wrote:
I guess I've never thought of that part as unfair...there are plenty of games that end with people getting an uneven number of turns (to name a few, Settlers of Catan, Dominion, and Ticket to Ride.)

Actually, the only person on T2R who gets an extra turn is the player who creates the game end (by having less trains). And its pretty easy to check the decreasing number of trains on show and have a chance of being that person yourself. Nothing unfair about it all; good planning can get you there!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian B.
United States
Boston
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
char(filter(1,[1 -1],[66 5 0 -39 82 -3 -12 8 8 -82]))
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
gamesbook wrote:

Actually, the only person on T2R who gets an extra turn is the player who creates the game end (by having less trains). And its pretty easy to check the decreasing number of trains on show and have a chance of being that person yourself. Nothing unfair about it all; good planning can get you there!


Not quite true. Let's say we have players A, B, C, and D who go in that order and player A is start player. And let's say in the 50th round, player B drops down to 2 trains. Thus, up to that point, players A and B have had 50 turns while C and D have had 49. Everyone, including B, gets one more turn. Thus, players A and B will have taken 51 turns while C and D will have taken only 50.

Granted, at least you know when it's going to be your last turn in TTR. But it's still not an equal number of turns for everyone.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Geo
Greece
Athens
Marousi
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Don't search for balance here. The events and the chaotic nature of the game can swing your majorities around every turn.

Very basic game, 10+ years late...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy S.
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
I don't see it as unfair. Think about it this way:

The arrest of the Queen triggers end game.
The arrest of the Queen is triggered by someone completing a Petition.
Completing a Petition gives you points and is the main feature of the game.
Good game design encourages players to score points and execute main features of the game.
If you complete a Petition after the 6th card, you know that you might trigger end game.
Thus, completing a Petition at 6+ might hold a high strategic advantage for you if you believe you have the lead. By the same token, it motivates you to not spend the game trying solely to disrupt other players -- you are going to need to complete Petitions early in the game so you can get your points in before endgame.

Thus, it is just one of the many strategic elements. There are lots of other games where the first person to pass a certain threshold or trigger endgame gets some kind of point bonus.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rob Gould
United Kingdom
Mansfield
Nottinghamshire
flag msg tools
badge
jestatharogue.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think that's their point.

The player ends the game by playing a petition, which means they can have more turns than the other players and just made some points.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick G.
United States
Glenshaw
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Does your religion have lightsabers? Nope? Didn't think so.
badge
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals." Agent K. Oh my what he would think of people had he known about what the internet would become.....
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I guess it just means play better than everyone else. haha.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy S.
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
rob2kewl wrote:
I think that's their point.

The player ends the game by playing a petition, which means they can have more turns than the other players and just made some points.


Which means that strategically if you think you are ahead in points or are very close, you might consider shifting your strategy at 6+ toward completing easy petitions of low value, because even if they're not worth as many VP, your goal is to trigger endgame ASAP while you still have the greatest influence in the court. Influence in court is all about "what have you done for me lately" and the whims and fads of the ruling class -- Influence expires periodically and must be buttressed frequently. When the Queen is arrested there will be a massive shakeup in the power structure, so you want to make sure you have enough Influence to insulate yourself from the shifting political winds, lest you be caught up in the same intrigue which ensnared Her Royal Highness.

I agree that the randomness of the abrupt ending can seem unbalanced, but to my mind it just introduces a Press Your Luck element to the Petition process.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.