Ossian Grr aka "Josh"
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Apologies if this was asked before.

Can Apollo start the game in an Assault Raptor?

I'm assuming yes, because it only says "Players cannot choose to place this assault raptor on the board during the “Set Up Ships” step of setup."

Just checking other people's opinions...
 
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Kwijiboe
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According to two rules, yes.

Apollo's starting position launches a "viper" and puts Apollo in it.

Daybreak has a clause that says, Assault Raptors are, for all game effects, considered a Viper.
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Tom Chounpanh
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Hrm... I just assumed the answer was no since it said They can't be placed during the setup. Maybe I'm wrong, but I personally felt the answer was no.

Maybe I'm in the vast minority, I don't know... as always I like to get some other thoughts and down the link an official response from FFG.
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Joseph Cochran
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Rules would appear to allow it, but yeah, it feels wrong.
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Pasi Ojala
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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"Being placed" during set up ships step does not cover "launch and pilot" from Apollo's sheet, so it seems to be quite valid for Apollo to launch and pilot an assault raptor at setup.

Relevant quotes:
Players cannot choose to place this assault raptor on the board during the “Set Up Ships” step of setup.

When a game effect instructs players to choose a viper to launch, damage, destroy, place, or activate, the player taking an action at that time may choose a viper or an assault raptor to use for that game effect.

I think starting the game without assault raptors would've been the clean way.
 
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Johan Haglert
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imdahman wrote:
Hrm... I just assumed the answer was no since it said They can't be placed during the setup. Maybe I'm wrong, but I personally felt the answer was no.

Maybe I'm in the vast minority, I don't know... as always I like to get some other thoughts and down the link an official response from FFG.
I don't know about the new character and how it reads but for setup I would assume that's regarding the regular two vipers at the bottom of the board.
 
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Robert Stewart
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aliquis wrote:
imdahman wrote:
Hrm... I just assumed the answer was no since it said They can't be placed during the setup. Maybe I'm wrong, but I personally felt the answer was no.

Maybe I'm in the vast minority, I don't know... as always I like to get some other thoughts and down the link an official response from FFG.
I don't know about the new character and how it reads but for setup I would assume that's regarding the regular two vipers at the bottom of the board.


The rulebook says that the Assault Raptor can't be placed during the Set Up Ships step of setup (Step 10) - it says nothing about Step 4 - Choose and Place Characters. If you trust the rulebook to be complete and accurate, then there's no question - Apollo can start in an Assault Raptor.

There simply is no other possibility consistent with the rules.

Of course, since this is a Fantasy Flight game, we can't rely on the rules being complete, and there's a case to be made for the intent of the rule being to prevent Assault Raptors from being used for any part of the initial setup, not just the named step (which is usually the only time during setup that it could get deployed).

Hopefully a clarification on this will be included in the big list-o'-questions someone's compiling for after the release. Until then, I'd go with the rules-as-written rather than attempting to interpret - Apollo quite often wants to land anyway simply to enable his Active Viper Pilot ability, so a lot of the time it'll only have a minor effect on the game...
 
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IMO, Apollo's already too good of a character. He shouldn't get a "free pass" here. That should go to those towards the start of the turn order
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Quote:
Hopefully a clarification on this will be included in the big list-o'-questions someone's compiling for after the release. Until then, I'd go with the rules-as-written rather than attempting to interpret - Apollo quite often wants to land anyway simply to enable his Active Viper Pilot ability, so a lot of the time it'll only have a minor effect on the game...


This. This question is quite probably mooted by the fact that Apollo has little reason to want to start the game in an assault raptor. Command, activation #1, launch, AVP, CAG Action (assuming CFB), productive XO is just too good to pass up. That being said, from a textual perspective, I agree that he is allowed to. The only exception to "assault raptor = viper" is the setup of the two vipers that are at the start of every game.
 
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Ted Von Penguin
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ackmondual wrote:
IMO, Apollo's already too good of a character. He shouldn't get a "free pass" here. That should go to those towards the start of the turn order


That's not really that big an advantage, especially if you're playing with the CFB since he can jump in a MKVII right away (I think, been awhile, it's 2 available and two damaged at start correct?). And that one is arguably better most of the time. Faster at least.
 
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Ossian Grr aka "Josh"
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vonpenguin wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
IMO, Apollo's already too good of a character. He shouldn't get a "free pass" here. That should go to those towards the start of the turn order


That's not really that big an advantage, especially if you're playing with the CFB since he can jump in a MKVII right away (I think, been awhile, it's 2 available and two damaged at start correct?). And that one is arguably better most of the time. Faster at least.



All 4 Mark VIIs begin the game damaged. Apollo always starts in a Mark II. (Of course, if Chief plays Repair + XO Apollo on his first turn, or something like that, then Apollo can get a Mark VII before his first action, but that takes effort)
 
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jozxyqk wrote:
vonpenguin wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
IMO, Apollo's already too good of a character. He shouldn't get a "free pass" here. That should go to those towards the start of the turn order


That's not really that big an advantage, especially if you're playing with the CFB since he can jump in a MKVII right away (I think, been awhile, it's 2 available and two damaged at start correct?). And that one is arguably better most of the time. Faster at least.



All 4 Mark VIIs begin the game damaged. Apollo always starts in a Mark II. (Of course, if Chief plays Repair + XO Apollo on his first turn, or something like that, then Apollo can get a Mark VII before his first action, but that takes effort)
Apollo has to spend a skill card to do so too.
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