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Subject: [Deck] Jinteki RP Shell Game (with C&C) rss

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Scott
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Note: I've only one (1) core set to work with; or else I'd surely have more Zaibatsu Loyalties.

Pretty standard, I suppose... Enough ice to protect centrals. Loads of assets.

Identity:
Jinteki: Replicating Perfection (Trace Amount)


Total Cards: (49)
Agenda (11)
Fetal AI (Trace Amount #32) x3
Nisei MK II (Core #68) x3
Corporate War (Future Proof #120) x2
Gila Hands Arcology (Creation and Control #23) x3

Asset (17)
Project Junebug (Core #69) x1
Ronin (Future Proof #112) x2
Snare! (Core #70) x3
Zaibatsu Loyalty (Core #71) x1
Aggressive Secretary (Core #57) x1 ■■
Cerebral Overwriter (Creation and Control #9) x2 ■■
Encryption Protocol (Trace Amount #29) x1 ■
Thomas Haas (Creation and Control #12) x2 ■
Melange Mining Corp (Core #108) x2
PAD Campaign (Core #109) x2

ICE (11)
Neural Katana (Core #77) x3
Viper (Cyber Exodus #52) x2 ■
Ice Wall (Core #103) x2 ■
Enigma (Core #111) x3
Wall of Static (Core #113) x1

Operation (10)
Trick of Light (Trace Amount #33) x3
Shipment from Kaguya (Core #100) x2 ■
Hedge Fund (Core #110) x3
Neural EMP (Core #72) x2

Upgrade (0)

Total Agenda Points: 19

Influence Values Totals -
Haas-Bioroid: 11
Jinteki: 35
NBN: 0
The Weyland Consortium: 4
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Nate K
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As a frequent RP player, I'm going to tell you right now: You need more ICE. Just about every Runner these days is packing R&D Interface, or Medium, or Data Leak Reversal, or is Noise. Unless you make it really difficult for the Runner to get into your central servers, the Runner is just going to ignore your remotes and dig your R&D for agendas.

Because it's so easy to ignore remote servers, here are some cards you can consider cutting:

--Project Junebug
--Encryption Protocol
--Thomas Haas (there are better economy cards you can use instead)
--Trick of Light (this is dependent on your play style, of course, but it's not quite as good if you have fewer Ambushes)
--Shipment from Kaguya (same as Trick of Light)

Additionally, you won't be dealing net damage each time an agenda is scored, which makes it more difficult to mill out or flatline a Runner. Subsequently, you may consider removing:

--Project Junebug
--Ronin
--Zaibatsu Loyalty
--Cerebral Overwriter
--Neural EMP

Finally, here are some ICE that have worked for my RP experiments:

--Eli 1.0
--Pop-Up Window
--Ice Wall
--Chum, surprisingly
--Shadow (I often splash for Scorched Earth)
--Data Mine
--Chimera (my economy supports multiple rezzes of it, and it's pretty good at stopping most Runners)
--Enigma
--Viktor 1.0
--Rototurret, when I can surprise the Runner with it

Interestingly, Neural Katana tends to perform rather poorly for my RP decks. Hokusai Grid, on the other hand, is STELLAR for this type of deck. I've also made decent use of Corporate Troubleshooter.

Just a few things to consider. Good luck!
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Daine .

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I disagree with the above post. In response to your RP deck, he basically advocated that you not bother with RP. The shell game is a legitimate strategy post-ronin and encryption protocol is a key part of that

I'd recommend a Hokusai or two, and more economy if you can (another MMC or Pad). I also think chum is necessary; a rezzed chum in front of an unrezzed ice locks down a server way more effectively than two credits should reasonably buy.

I imagine you'll struggle in end game because you have no good ice. If this list doesn't work well, perhaps try finding the influence for a one of splash of something bigger (flare or a big bioroid). A Levy University can ensure that you can find it, but its probably too expensive to be worth the space.

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Nate K
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Daine wrote:
I disagree with the above post. In response to your RP deck, he basically advocated that you not bother with RP. The shell game is a legitimate strategy post-ronin and encryption protocol is a key part of that



No, RP is great--it's probably my favorite ID! My only concrete piece of advice was to add more ICE, which I completely stand by. I have a Replicating Perfection shell game deck (and yes, it does run three copies of Encryption Protocol) that I absolutely love! But it runs 16 pieces of ICE to this deck's mere 11, and it has triple Hokusai Grid for added protection. That way, it's a lot easier to funnel the Runner into remotes and make him or her waste clicks, money, and resources.

My above post merely pointed out some cards that Scott MIGHT want to consider removing, depending on the strategy on which he wanted to focus, as well as pointing out some cards he may wish to add. With so few pieces of ICE, he's undermining his own strategy by leaving his central servers too vulnerable. If you want to lure the Runner into your remotes, you have to shore up your centrals enough that looking for agendas in remote servers is the more appealing option.
 
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Brodie
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I've run a RP shell game deck as a secondary deck since Humanity's Shadow (so I don't have as much experience with it as my primary, but I've played it about twenty or so times), and I agree with Nate K. You need more ice. In fact, in my experience ice is even tricker with RP, because you want taxing, punishing ice to be on the outside of your centrals, and you want a lesser number of solid ETR ice to protect certain of your remotes. (Usually it's just one remote for me, because I find it adds to the shell game: "Why did he install that asset outside his defended remote? Is it an agenda he's bluffing, or a trap he wants me to think is an agenda?") Right now, your ice is not doing a good enough job punishing runs on centrals, which is what you want to do if you're running RP. In general, any ice the Runner can ignore safely is a bad ice to put as your outermost on a central. That's almost every Barrier, Chum, Sensei, and a bunch of other ice - the Runner can run, allow the ETR sub to fire or jack out after Sensei/Chum, and then move to your remotes with impunity. For my deck, at least, I want the outermost ice to be a pain in the ass whether they're hitting my centrals or my remotes, to maximize the hassle chasing remotes is, which means I need more ice like Ichi 1.0, Neural Katana, Uroboros, Viper, and so on. (Tracers are actually a plus to me - the Runner can pass them by spending money, but that's an acceptable outcome to me - I want them to spend money either way, at least for my outermost central ice.)

I also found that it's tough to get the Runner to run on suspicious remotes earlier in the game, so having lots of Junebugs and Secretaries and Overwriters is overkill. I think you've got about the right amount, though.

I'd run Shipment from Kaguya for sure if I could find the influence for it. As it is, half my influence went into ice, and half into assets. Yay Jinteki.

How is Corporate War working out for you? I found it was tough to stay above 7 credits in order to benefit from it, although with Thomas Haas in the deck that might be easier (fully advance War, then rez and trash Haas with a few counters to hit 7 before scoring War). I'm surprised your deck list has no Braintrust - the ability sucks, to be sure, but who cares? It's a 3/2. I'm not totally impressed with Fetal AI, and I'm thinking about dropping in my deck in favor of War thanks to thinking it over while composing this post (), so I recommend you sub Braintrusts for your AIs. The net damage is cute, but in my experience it's like a Snare that's worth agenda points for the Runner - it's so hard to score a 5-pointer, and for only 2 points it hardly seems worth it.
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Scott
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Thanks for all the comments...

I haven't play tested this exact deck yet. (I haven't played that much Netrunner at all. As it happens I'm still new to the game.)

I will be taking some version of it to a tournament tomorrow, so I'll let you know how it goes.

As you've noted, the main problem to overcome building this deck is influence. There's just not enough. I've opted to go for 1x and 2x of as many different assets as possible, because they all do useful things, and the runner will never know what to expect.

Economy is an issue, hence my addition of Thomas Haas and Gila Hands. Corporate Wars fits well enough into this deck, because I can leave it out partially advanced, waiting for the right moment to score it (e.g. when I have 7+ credits) and the runner will (hopefully) figure it's a trap (and perhaps he'll occasionally think a trap is a Corporate War)

As for Ice, I have followed SlySquid's lead and kept it to a minimum. He has been successful with his RP Shell Game running 12 pieces of ice. I removed 1 to come up with another card slot and another influence. Though it does make me uneasy.

I wonder in a deck like this, that relies - presumably - on uncertainty and surprise, if going to 50+ cards wouldn't be a disaster. Though again, influence is still the limiting factor.
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Steven Tu
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Careful about thinking of Thomas Haas as economy - he isn't AT ALL. He's a way to make the runner spend money to run into a big server - and then you get all your money back (-1). Every token you put on Thomas Haas is you sitting at -2 credits (if you took one, you'd be at +1. By spending one you're effectively using 2 credits for each advancement).

So Tommy Haas is a lot of things, an economy card isn't one of them (unless you combo him with other cards that make advancing more efficient, like Matrix Analyser or Simone Diego from Weyland.

Keep to 49 cards, it'll help you in the long run.
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Daine .

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Good luck at the tournament!

I would argue that Jinteki is one of the more difficult factions to play well. Here's some unsolicited advice:

1) build a big buffer of credits. You can afford to spend your turn clicking for credits more easily than you can afford to have a snare go off without having the 4 to fire it. Thomas Haas should help with this, but think twice about ever ending your turn with fewer than 4 credits if you can at all help it.

2) keep the Fetal AIs. They're your most important agenda. They're R+D defense, rob money from the runner, and do net damage to the runner usually on their last clicks. Yes, they're a pain to score. But they're still awesome. Don't be led astray.

3) psych yourself up to always play unpredictably. Have a remote server and an agenda in hand? Consider playing the agenda naked half to time, just to keep your opponents on their toes.

4) tweak your deck to fit how you like to play (esp. as regards deck size and ICE). Jinteki RP can work or fail in more ways than the other factions (in my opinion. On this forum you'll probably just hear that it fails from most people), so net decking is bound to leave you even more confused than your opponent.

5) count your cards. It helps to know what's still in your deck and which tricks are still coming up. You need to constantly adjust how you're playing based on how many snares and fetals are still in R+D. This is true of any faction, but it's particularly important for you.

6) make sure you don't get into a rut about trying to win only through agendas or only through net damage. You have to play the board state, but giving up too early on one route or the other leaves you very vulnerable.
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Steven Tu
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Daine wrote:

1) build a big buffer of credits. You can afford to spend your turn clicking for credits more easily than you can afford to have a snare go off without having the 4 to fire it. Thomas Haas should help with this, but think twice about ever ending your turn with fewer than 4 credits if you can at all help it.


All good advice, but I just wanna ask, how does Tommy Haas help you build credits? And you have to note that if you have less than $4, when the runner accesses a snare! from R&D or HQ, it's too late to pull money from Haas on the table to pay for it - you have to have pulled it BEFORE the access step, as there's no paid ability window between accessing and resolving abilities on the access.
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Rich Stokes
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Scott,

I'm in a similar boat to you and while other people here have WAY more experience than I do, I've had some success with PE (which is probably the ID I enjoy most of all the ones I've played).

My main thing with it is to try making runs on the centrals cost at least something, like Allen says above. The ideal ice for this is usually Tollbooth. In one game I as super-lucky and managed to get a Tollbooth as the outermost Ice on all 3 centrals, so it was 1 click plus 3c per turn if the runner wanted to even look at my remotes. Obviously you're not going to make that happen often, so you need other stuff. Wall of Thorns also works well (because people pretty much HAVE to break the damage sub) and so does Ichi, but there are other choices. I'll mirror what other people have said about Neural Katana not actually working too well because it's just a bit too cheap for people to break mid game.

I spend almost all my influence on ICE and economy. Things like Eve and Private Contracts are great for being too expensive for most runner decks to trash.

I've also had some joy with Dedicated Server, because you can sit on it unrezzed and worst case is that it's JUST ANOTHER THING for the runner to waste clicks and credits running on and trashing. Get two of them rezzed and there's trouble for the runner as you're getting all your ice really cheap. He's not going to let you keep them long, but it'll cost him to trash them, so you still win.

I usually run out of horizontal table space with my deck!

Modori can be fun too, because (1) she's free to rez and lets you swap that outermost Eli on R&D for a Tollbooth from your hand or whatever. Changing up your ice is great if you don't get ideal cards early. Plus, as an upgrade you can just stick her out on the table as yet another part of the shell games. And at zero cost, you don't care if she gets trashed too badly and can move her about (rez a 2nd copy, trahing the first) without worrying about the cost.

The best thing about this game is that there are no "correct" answers, so hopefully something here is helpful?
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Daine .

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Tuism wrote:
Daine wrote:

1) build a big buffer of credits. You can afford to spend your turn clicking for credits more easily than you can afford to have a snare go off without having the 4 to fire it. Thomas Haas should help with this, but think twice about ever ending your turn with fewer than 4 credits if you can at all help it.


All good advice, but I just wanna ask, how does Tommy Haas help you build credits? And you have to note that if you have less than $4, when the runner accesses a snare! from R&D or HQ, it's too late to pull money from Haas on the table to pay for it - you have to have pulled it BEFORE the access step, as there's no paid ability window between accessing and resolving abilities on the access.


Tommy isn't an economy card, but he does help with the buffer. If I can't end my turn with 4, I end it with 1 and a Tommy with two counters. I usually do it to lure a breaker-less criminal to run through a katana early. Or I'll pull the trigger on Tommy if a runner is about to access more than one card from my R+D.

Tommy is a good card for all factions, but he's best in Jinteki for staying rich enough to be able to pay for a trap right when it needs to go off. Granted, I'd love to be able to splash 3 matrix analyzers in my RP deck and make Tommy a legit economy card, but those 6 influence are needed for real ICE. I have had success splashing one, but I play a big-money, big-ICE RP and I just can't take that much influence for cutesy tricks that won't do more to actually win.
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Steven Tu
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If economy is a concern, wouldn't *actually* generating credits be a better option? I think Tommy is great, don't get me wrong, but he's really only gonna give you value if:

1) You have a server for the runner to run through and WANT him to run through
2) You have legitimate multi-advance threats that you can threaten (5/3 agendas, Beale, Mandatory Upgrades)
3) You have a trick to trick counters onto him - this I find really janky and usually not worth the time
4) You expect a world of Account Siphons so rather stash your cash elsewhere
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Daine .

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Tuism wrote:
If economy is a concern, wouldn't *actually* generating credits be a better option? I think Tommy is great, don't get me wrong, but he's really only gonna give you value if:

1) You have a server for the runner to run through and WANT him to run through
2) You have legitimate multi-advance threats that you can threaten (5/3 agendas, Beale, Mandatory Upgrades)
3) You have a trick to trick counters onto him - this I find really janky and usually not worth the time
4) You expect a world of Account Siphons so rather stash your cash elsewhere


1) I want the runner to waste a click on a central. If I'm set up and ready for them, they'll end up having to pay something even of they jack out. Having a remote which they want to run is going to eat up half their turn, whether its worthwhile or not. With Tommy, Aggressive Secretary, Cerebral Overwriter, or an economy asset which costs +3 to trash because of encryption protocols, it's not
2) your list forgets Nisei, Ronin, or Fetals (if I already have 5 points). I agree that a good in-faction 3-point agenda is something Jinteki would benefit from, but a Nisei or Corp. War are nothing to scoff at, which should motivate a runner to want to start running, even on the double-advanced stuff. If they don't, you've scored a Nisei or primed a ronin.
3) A single matrix analyzer at the top of a server is a nice addition to a shell game deck, as part of a bigger effort. The click it saves you every time you get to advance pays for the ice on the first use. Yes, it's a waste if it's your main economy, but using it to advance all your cards is not nothing, and with RP they have to run a central, so I might as well get something from them wasting a click.
4) I ALWAYS expect account siphons [trails off, muttering obscenities under his breath].
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Daine .

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And I spend a significant amount of my turns as Jinteki just clicking for credits (yay for Gila Hands!), charging marked accounts, or installing economy assets. So far, I haven't regretted a single click onto Tommy. Since I'm all-too-frequently forced to click for one credit anyway, the chance to get almost two credits in the bank instead is a huge advantage. And after seeing me charge a Tommy to 5 clicks in a game, my opponent face checked a 4-advanced secretary, thinking he was raiding my bank so he could vamp me.
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Jia Yaik Yong
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This may be a little late but I think you don't have enough agenda points...
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Alejandro G.
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Nice catch. Only 19 points... JUDGE!
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