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Subject: NEXT Design rss

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Cherith Cutestorrie
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Basking in the smell of a CCG unbox as my Creation & Control came today...looking at NEXT Design I had a question.

It reads: "before taking your first turn, you may install up to 3 pieces of ice with no more than a single piece of ice per server. Draw until you have 5 cards in HQ."

...

REALLY.

So the ice NEXT puts out by virtue of your game NOT HAVING STARTED YET is free?
 
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Jason Yang
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It's installed but not rezzed.
 
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Andy Mills
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Free to install, yes. You still have to pay to rez it. Since each ice would be the first ice in a server, you wouldn't pay install costs in the first place.

So this agenda really saves you 3 clicks (which is meaningful, but not ridiculous, imo).
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Cherith Cutestorrie
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I always...Every Single Time...get Corp install/rez cost timing mixed up. Ok...yeah...not as wholly unbelievable now.
 
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Charles Lasky
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manydills wrote:
Free to install, yes. You still have to pay to rez it. Since each ice would be the first ice in a server, you wouldn't pay install costs in the first place.

So this agenda really saves you 3 clicks (which is meaningful, but not ridiculous, imo).


Actually it's as much as 6 clicks saved, as you draw up to five after installing the ice. It is an interesting ID; almost like Andromeda on the Runner's side. I've put together a deck that uses it. It seems a little slow, but it's rather hard for the runner to get through!
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Andy Mills
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Zalrus9 wrote:
manydills wrote:
Free to install, yes. You still have to pay to rez it. Since each ice would be the first ice in a server, you wouldn't pay install costs in the first place.

So this agenda really saves you 3 clicks (which is meaningful, but not ridiculous, imo).


Actually it's as much as 6 clicks saved, as you draw up to five after installing the ice. It is an interesting ID; almost like Andromeda on the Runner's side. I've put together a deck that uses it. It seems a little slow, but it's rather hard for the runner to get through!


Good point!
 
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Damian Tyree
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I was under the assumption that you have to pay install costs. Like, if you install one ice over the other.
 
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Chris Wood
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Except Next Design says one ice per server, so there can be no install costs with the pre-turn installs
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Björn E
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Zalrus9 wrote:
manydills wrote:
Free to install, yes. You still have to pay to rez it. Since each ice would be the first ice in a server, you wouldn't pay install costs in the first place.

So this agenda really saves you 3 clicks (which is meaningful, but not ridiculous, imo).


Actually it's as much as 6 clicks saved, as you draw up to five after installing the ice. It is an interesting ID; almost like Andromeda on the Runner's side. I've put together a deck that uses it. It seems a little slow, but it's rather hard for the runner to get through!


Don't overestimate though, I see your point, but this Identity has a lot too prove.

Disadvantages:
- you only have 12 influence
- you need more ICE to get this working. I believe someone calculated that 25 ICE is an optimum to draw sufficient ICE
- you have no control over which ICE. Getting your late game ICE like e.g. Archer or Janus in your draw sucks

It's not bad, but certainly not like Andro.
 
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Andrew Barrett
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Every ICE from 19-24 adds about 4% to the chances of getting a 3 ice grip in your opening hand or after mulligan. The 25th piece of ICE is when the curve starts falling off and only adds ~3%.

Population size: 49

Number of successes in population: 24

Sample size: 5

Number of successes in sample (x): 3

Hypergeometric Probability: P(X = 3): 0.301840594393786

Cumulative Probability: P(X >/= 3): 0.440222897669705

Therefore, Cumulative Probability: P(X < 3): 0.559777102330295

Cumulative Probability: P(X < 3)2: 0.3133504042933016

Total Cumulative Probability of Drawing 3 or More ice in Opening hand, or after Mulligan: 1 - P(X < 3)*P(X < 3): 0.6866495957066984
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Isaac W
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Chill84 wrote:
Every ICE from 19-24 adds about 4% to the chances of getting a 3 ice grip in your opening hand or after mulligan. The 25th piece of ICE is when the curve starts falling off and only adds ~3%.

Population size: 49

Number of successes in population: 24

Sample size: 5

Number of successes in sample (x): 3

Hypergeometric Probability: P(X = 3): 0.301840594393786

Cumulative Probability: P(X >/= 3): 0.440222897669705

Therefore, Cumulative Probability: P(X < 3): 0.559777102330295

Cumulative Probability: P(X < 3)2: 0.3133504042933016

Total Cumulative Probability of Drawing 3 or More ice in Opening hand, or after Mulligan: 1 - P(X < 3)*P(X < 3): 0.6866495957066984


Cards...Drawn...Check...soblue
 
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Aaron s
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DaRef wrote:
Zalrus9 wrote:
manydills wrote:
Free to install, yes. You still have to pay to rez it. Since each ice would be the first ice in a server, you wouldn't pay install costs in the first place.

So this agenda really saves you 3 clicks (which is meaningful, but not ridiculous, imo).


Actually it's as much as 6 clicks saved, as you draw up to five after installing the ice. It is an interesting ID; almost like Andromeda on the Runner's side. I've put together a deck that uses it. It seems a little slow, but it's rather hard for the runner to get through!


Don't overestimate though, I see your point, but this Identity has a lot too prove.

Disadvantages:
- you only have 12 influence
- you need more ICE to get this working. I believe someone calculated that 25 ICE is an optimum to draw sufficient ICE
- you have no control over which ICE. Getting your late game ICE like e.g. Archer or Janus in your draw sucks

It's not bad, but certainly not like Andro.


However, with NEXT ICE, the value of this is going to go up and up. We've only seen NEXT Bronze so far, but I imagine a Silver and Gold are coming at least, and NEXT currenttly fires off of any NEXT ICE, not just the specific one.
 
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Agent 57
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Chill84 wrote:
Every ICE from 19-24 adds about 4% to the chances of getting a 3 ice grip in your opening hand or after mulligan. The 25th piece of ICE is when the curve starts falling off and only adds ~3%.

Population size: 49

Number of successes in population: 24

Sample size: 5

Number of successes in sample (x): 3

Hypergeometric Probability: P(X = 3): 0.301840594393786

Cumulative Probability: P(X >/= 3): 0.440222897669705

Therefore, Cumulative Probability: P(X < 3): 0.559777102330295

Cumulative Probability: P(X < 3)2: 0.3133504042933016

Total Cumulative Probability of Drawing 3 or More ice in Opening hand, or after Mulligan: 1 - P(X < 3)*P(X < 3): 0.6866495957066984


OMG someone actually using hypergeometric distribution in a manner consistent with both what it is for and something meaningful in context of a customizable card game. Bravo sir.
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