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Subject: Rules questions after first game rss

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Jeff Thornsen
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Overall the learning game went pretty good. I got stomped but mostly because I took too many weapon cards and not enough defensive items or spells.

Some questions came up though that I hoped Queen or someone else could help clarify...

1. Magic Bandages / Mana Potion
The Icon on the card indicates that exhausting it recovers your Life. The description in the card reference says that they recover Mana. However, the example on page 11 shows the player using the Magic Bandages to heal 1 life in order to avoid dying, so I am guessing that the cards are correct and the reference sheet is wrong. These 2 cards would seem a lot weaker if they only recovered Mana.

Assumption: The cards are correct and restore life when exhausted, despite increasing your max Mana.


2. Negative HP / Reaching 0 Life with healing items
Rules, Page 11 wrote:
If the hero's life points drop to 0 the player may use healing artifacts in order to replenish life points. If this is not possible, that hero is defeated. Continue with 5. Combat result

Can you use healing items to recover, even if you were dealt damage that would have brought your Life further below 0? Example: I have 1 Life, the monster deals 3 damage, and I also have a healing item. Can I say that my life drops to 0, but then I use the healing item to restore to 1? Or am I dead because my life actually drops to -2 and the healing is insufficient to keep me alive?

Assumption: You cannot use healing items to "revive" in this way. You must have enough healing abilities to keep your life above 0.


3. Discarding an item that increases your Max Life/Mana
If you discard an item like Magic Bandages that increases your Max Life/Mana in order to make room for a 3rd item in that category, do you reduce your max Life/Mana accordingly?

Assumption: You keep the boost, because of the phrasing in the card reference (emphasis mine):
Card Reference wrote:
If a player adds one of these cards to his equipment during 1st Phase: Gear-up, he advances both his life token and his life marker by one space on the life track. This player now has 1 life more for the remainder of the game.



4. Polymorph
The card text says you draw the 3 monsters from the reserve. The reference sheet says you draw them from the monster card pile (and thus reduces the quantity of "defeatable" monsters in the round by 1).

Assumption: Use the text on the card and draw from the Reserve, so not to disturb the "3 monsters per player" rule.
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Mike Elliott
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I don't have a copy of the game yet, but I can take a quick stab at these.

1 the bandages heal. They do not restore mana. I can't remember the final version of mana potion, but I would consider the card text correct.
2 in testing, we played you went to 0 and then healed 1. This made healing items better by not having negative life and increased the drafting strategies, since each healing item could be used to survive a turn. However, this is unofficial and at some point an official FAQ will address this and other interactions.
3 all stat boosts are one shot when you acquire them and are permanent, regardless of whether you convert the card to a skill later
4 the polymorphed cards come from the reserve cards that are not otherwise typically used in the round. The play testers hated the version that took the cards from the central pile for the reason you stated.

Mike
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Jeff Thornsen
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I can see the healingn thing go either way. They might actually work better as a revive option rather then simply damage absorption.

There was one other question...

A monster in the last level had an effect that said to exhaust an item. Can you exhaust one of those glove items which are only useful in Phase 1 (by borrowing neighbor skill discounts)? They don't have an exhaust ability but I ruled that they could still be exhausted to satisfy the monsters special effect.

Thanks for replying so quickly cool
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Cameron McKenzie
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Glad to hear from the designer himself... I have a few questions.

1.) Polymorph takes from the reserves, but what if there aren't enough cards in the reserve? Does it just take as many as possible and the player chooses from those? If there are no cards in the reserve at all, I assume polymorph may not be used? Polymorph might be used mutliple times if you use another effect to refresh it.

2.) Can I exhaust a scroll to use it, use a spellbook to refresh it, and then exhaust the spell again for its effect? I think no, since the card explanation says to refresh something that was exhausted in a previous turn, but it's been wrong about a lot of things...

3.) Effects like Arcane Energy are ambiguous it says "(melee) | (ranged) becomes (magic)" Do I have to choose either melee or ranged, or does it apply to both? Is the effect optional, and does it affect the monster's damage in addition to my own? Do I have to convert all of it? Battle Fury specifically says it affects my own damage, but the same question applies as to the ambiguous use of "or"
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Also, when you exhaust a card, do its non-exhaust options go out of play?
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Mike Elliott
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Again, I have not received a copy of the game yet. Queen correctly chose to handle the fulfillment of the players who backed the kickstarter before handing other requests like mine. At some point an official FAQ will be posted and bear in mind that these answers are unofficial. Also note my first rule of games is that you can change or modify any rules you like and I will promise not to come hunt you down or even be bothered at all.

On polymorph, there were two change monster cards. I believe polymorph got the monster from the reserve pile and transformation took the active monster and swapped it for one of the top monsters of the active monster deck. In a 5 player game, you will have 15 monsters in the stack and 5 in the reserve since there are 20 monsters in each level group. So if you play polymorph once, you would take 3 of the 5 extra cards, pick one, and shuffle the other 2 back into the remaining, leaving 4 extras in a five player. On the rare chance that polymorph somehow got played more than three times, you would only have the choice of the remaining monsters, and if no monsters were left to polymorph to, I would probably rule you could not use the effect. (This never occurred, but on the off chance it does in a 5 player game with polymorph used more than 5 times, I would rule that it can no longer be used.

I will send a note to the development group about the FAQ. As a freelance designer, I do a lot of games with a number of different companies, and I don't want to state anything that would create problems for Queen games, since the individual companies handle questions and customer service for each game. Most card games are exception based games, and I apologize that this particular class of games can often have interactions that are not always immediately clear. (See the hundreds of pages of FAQ and rules entries on Magic for an extreme example)

Mike
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Cameron McKenzie
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No problem.. I can understand that you don't have all of the answers now, but we have to get the questions out there.
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Christopher Boat
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Would be nice if the rules matched the cards, instead of having to wait for FAQ/Errata sheets...

Polymorph was definitely the one I had the most problem with. It says to "discard" your current monster, draw 3 from the reserve, pick one then discard the rest. So, either discard means remove from the game or it means return to the reserve. If it returns to the reserve, then the the reserve would never run out, no matter how many Polymorphs you used.

No offense, but isn't it a bit odd that the designer isn't sure how the cards work?
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Mike Elliott
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RhodesN7 wrote:
Would be nice if the rules matched the cards, instead of having to wait for FAQ/Errata sheets...

Polymorph was definitely the one I had the most problem with. It says to "discard" your current monster, draw 3 from the reserve, pick one then discard the rest. So, either discard means remove from the game or it means return to the reserve. If it returns to the reserve, then the the reserve would never run out, no matter how many Polymorphs you used.

No offense, but isn't it a bit odd that the designer isn't sure how the cards work?


None taken. I have about 50 published games and about a dozen other active projects. This particular game was handed off about a year ago. Games have many minor (and occasional major) changes during development and wordings often get changed to potentially simplify the game, speed up the game, or for other reasons. Because of this, the final versions often have variations from the versions that I tested heavily, and interactions will invariably come up that were potentially missed in testing but caught by thousands of players. I designed close to a thousand Magic cards and a few thousand cards for the other dozen trading card games I have designed over the years and I certainly can't tell you how all of them work, especially with all the various rule changes that have occurred over the years.

The bottom line is that all the cards that I designed over the years for Magic are owned and operated by Wizards, and with very few exceptions, every game I have made is controlled by the publishing company and those companies can make changes to card wordings (or even add a new card to replace a confusing or weak one) that alter the original design intent and the functionality of the card in the game. In some cases they may errata the card back to the original intent, and in other cases they (often after consulting with the designer but not always) may decide to rule on how the card plays with the wording. Every game of this type (cards with interactive rules text) has some amount of errata, confusing interactions, or overpowered cards (see Halifax Hammer).

I am sure they will get an FAQ up soon. I started to answer a few questions based on the original wordings, but quickly decided that a number of the wordings had changed and that the publisher should make the call on the questions.

Mike
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Christopher Boat
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Thank you for the explanation, Mike. I have a lot of respect for game designers, and I suppose I take for granted just how much work can go into something like this. Sometimes I'm glad none of my designs have ever been published. laugh

My biggest concern is if they decide the 1st printing of Lost Legends cards are incorrect and if they change them for future editions. I suppose that's a risk we take with kickstarter. Hopefully Queen would be willing to send replacements if that were the case. I just know it's very tough to teach a card game to new players and having to explain that the text written on the cards aren't the rules they should follow and forcing players to read FAQ sheets in order to play the game correctly.

Either way, thank you for the time you've taken to answer our questions. I see a ton of potential in Lost Legends and really hope to see expansions for it one day. So many possibilities!
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