Recommend
10 
 Thumb up
 Hide
110 Posts
1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Board Game Design » Board Game Design

Subject: WIP-Cine-vilzation, a Game for the 2013 Solitaire Design Contest-Contest Ready rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Andrew H
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Edit 10/4/13-Made a few changes and will call it contest ready.

9/21/13 Edit-Added Chad Mestdah's awesome Vassal Module file, and some low ink parts.

9/6/13 Edit- Added 1.0 version parts and rules. More info in the 9/6/13 post below.

1.1 Parts:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bx82aPfBGzTIY211QUtSOXR5MGM/...

1.1 Rules
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bx82aPfBGzTIVktyZkxZbDBJc1E/...

Vassal module by Chad Mestdagh
https://docs.google.com/a/mgschools.net/file/d/0B0WBVnUE4NbH...

1.0 Low Ink Parts
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bx82aPfBGzTIQTc0RWcxYnhXZkk/...


This is a WIP for the 2013 Solitaire Print and Play Contest.

I think I'm ready to start a game for this contest. I had some ideas for a civilization game, but no theme, and other ideas for a movie studio game, but it had multi-player worker placement mechanics that probably wouldn't work well for a solitaire contest. I'm going to try to combine the two into one entry. I'm not sure if I'll keep the name, but it works for now.

What I see right now is a game with cards, two boards, and several dice in three colors (5 or 6 of each is what I'll design with). The dice represent a couple different things, kind of a combination of people, genre, and resources. My sketches from the civilization game used the colors green, red and black, and I can use them for now.

Green Drama Crew Money
Black Art Actors Acclaim
Red Action Producers Power

In general, the people want to make films of their genre, which produces resources of the same color. However, I think I''ll have a rock, paper, scissors thing where the resources can help get new things in other categories or against an AI. For example, Acclaim can get a new producer, or Power can stop a union strike.

I see the cards as a combination of technology, people and the AI. The player has a chance to get each card, but so might the AI. The player wants them because they are required to make certain films, may offer bonuses in others, or might be used as a guarantied die roll. But odds are the player won't have enough resources to get every card.

The first chart I see is a list of film genres grouped into the three base category above. At the start, the player can only make those basic three, but the cards will add new types. The chart keeps track of what technology or people are needed to make each film, as well as the popularity of each film type. The popularity determines the resources produced by the film. The chart might also be used for an awards night for victory points, but I'm not sure right now.

The second board runs most of the game. The one below uses my ideas for the civ game, but still works for this explanation. It's inspired from the game Eclipse.


Imagine each of the three rows of number on the bottom covered by a die of the same color. As the dice are removed and rolled, they reveal a cost that must be paid in an upkeep phase. The rolled dice are placed on one of the letters ( a movie that takes three months would put the dice on "c"), which takes the dice out of action for some rounds. Each round the dice in the letters shift down, and the "a" dice are also rolled for an AI before they return to the player board.

Right now I don't have much for an AI. On thought is they produce resources for another studio, and if it's greater then the cost of a current card, theother studio gets it. Another thought is the rolls could raise or lower the popularity of genres in the same color. The last idea is some sort of narrative (actor arrested, delay film for ____ months).

That's about all I have right now. I''ll keep updating this thread as it develops. I you have any thoughts or suggestions, they would be appreciated. Without a prototype right now, I don't have any roadblocks, but I'm sure I'll post cries for help along with progress updates over the next few months. The only questions I have right now are about the name. It works for now, but I'm not sure how civilization'y the game will feel at the end. Would that bother anyone?

Thanks for looking and for your thoughts.
4 
 Thumb up
20.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John "Omega" Williams
United States
Kentwood
Michigan
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: WIP-Cine-vilzation, a Game for the 2013 Solitaire Design Contest-Brainstorming Phase
Interesting approach.

Will there be a single mat? Or a set thats randomly or selectively choosen from?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew H
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: WIP-Cine-vilzation, a Game for the 2013 Solitaire Design Contest-Brainstorming Phase
Omega2064 wrote:
Interesting approach.

Will there be a single mat? Or a set thats randomly or selectively choosen from?

Thank you.
I'm not quite sure what you're asking. I see the prototype as having the boards on two separate sheets, mostly to give room for notes and revisions. I see the choice of film genres to start with three choices, and expand to nine-fifteen as the cards "invent" new genres and they become popular. If you ment something else, let me know and I'll try to answer.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael R.
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: WIP-Cine-vilzation, a Game for the 2013 Solitaire Design Contest-Brainstorming Phase
Keep pumping out the ideas and the AI will eventually suggest itself to you. Remember that some people are colour blind so red and green together may be a problem.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew H
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: WIP-Cine-vilzation, a Game for the 2013 Solitaire Design Contest-Brainstorming Phase
mjrobertson wrote:
Keep pumping out the ideas and the AI will eventually suggest itself to you. Remember that some people are colour blind so red and green together may be a problem.


Good point about red/green colors. I default to those colors for US currency and aggression/God of War, but it's a bad habit because of colorblindness and most of the world's money isn't green. I''ll use another color instead of green for my prototype and design.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Hutchings
Australia
Unspecified
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: WIP-Cine-vilzation, a Game for the 2013 Solitaire Design Contest-Brainstorming Phase
Side topic: A fair few old films are in the public domain now, so you could use screenshots for artwork.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew H
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: WIP-Cine-vilzation, a Game for the 2013 Solitaire Design Contest-Brainstorming Phase
apeloverage wrote:
Side topic: A fair few old films are in the public domain now, so you could use screenshots for artwork.

Great idea. I started a paper and pencil prototype today, and will work in that medium until I get a 1.0 level game. But if it looks like it will work, I''ll probably do this for the playtesting or final version. Thanks for the suggestion.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chad Mestdagh
Canada
Edmonton
Alberta
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: WIP-Cine-vilzation, a Game for the 2013 Solitaire Design Contest-Brainstorming Phase
Art movies and Drama movies are usually the same thing. May I suggest using comedy as a genre.

In terms of AI, a lot of movie studios come and go based on the funding and prestige that they can get. How about the AI work along funding of resources.

For example, you could have an event deck that gives a basic amount of resources each turn. Each card could also add in a certain amount of resources depending if you have invested in certain talent (i.e. a tech tree), won a certain amount of prestige awards, thrown a number of parties, have a cgi studio, etc. I guess this would work a little like the start tokens in Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar.

Winning awards could boost your popularity and making it easier to gather certain types of talent. Making a bomb could decrease the amount of resources.

You would need a system that would evaluate how well each movie does.

Cards could act like a timer. When the deck runs out, the game is over.

Just an idea. Take it for what it is worth.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew H
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: WIP-Cine-vilzation, a Game for the 2013 Solitaire Design Contest-Brainstorming Phase
radchad wrote:
Art movies and Drama movies are usually the same thing. May I suggest using comedy as a genre.

In terms of AI, a lot of movie studios come and go based on the funding and prestige that they can get. How about the AI work along funding of resources.

For example, you could have an event deck that gives a basic amount of resources each turn. Each card could also add in a certain amount of resources depending if you have invested in certain talent (i.e. a tech tree), won a certain amount of prestige awards, thrown a number of parties, have a cgi studio, etc. I guess this would work a little like the start tokens in Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar.

Winning awards could boost your popularity and making it easier to gather certain types of talent. Making a bomb could decrease the amount of resources.

You would need a system that would evaluate how well each movie does.

Cards could act like a timer. When the deck runs out, the game is over.

Just an idea. Take it for what it is worth.

Thanks for the ideas, I'll look at Tolzk'in. I originally thought about action, drama and comedy for the genre categories too, but I had some trouble expanding the comedy into 3-4 sub-genres. I had Romantic-Comedy and Musical. I actually had merged those into drama, as I think they could fit both too.

If I can come up with a few more, I can merge the art and drama sub-categories (documentary, adaptation, foreign language, historical), and link drama with actors and acclaim, and comedy with crew and money. That still works.

I guess this brings out another question for the collective. Can you think of a sub-genre for comedy? Slapstick fits the era, Mockumentary? Satire? Animation?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew H
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: WIP-Cine-vilzation, a Game for the 2013 Solitaire Design Contest-Brainstorming Phase
I made a rough paper/pencil prototype, and tried a few things. I think I like the mechanic of the dice moving down the A-F track. As a side note, I found that using several small containers (I'm using old plastic baby food applesauce containers) makes it easy to store and slide. The big thing I noticed from a design standpoint was I really did not like the popularity tracking chart.

The first version had too many things to track on it (12 genres). I thought I could simplify it to tracking the three base genres, and this was better, but it was both too much (adjusting for the genres) and too little (oversimplified and made them too similar) at the same time.

What I will be experimenting with now, is using the A-F chart to track popularity. I'll have genres (with requirements and payouts) listed on cards, and these will sit above the board and move left and right as things become more or less popular. The A-F will adjust the payouts.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew H
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: WIP-Cine-vilzation, a Game for the 2013 Solitaire Design Contest-Brainstorming Phase
It's still a bit rough, but the switch to the single chart seems much better overall. I did several variants this weekend, and am leaning towards something like this.

The cards are broken up into three draw decks, and all three sit above the "A" container/space face down. Along the right side of each card face, is a genre or sub-genre, and based on your choices, the cards may be flipped over and placed into the next available space (above "B," above "C," etc.) staying in the same row as it was drawn from. The listing on the edge tracks how popular the genre is by comparing to the letter below, for example, if a card is above a "C," it will be popular for 3 more game rounds.

When a movie is completed, the player takes a small payment for the opening, and places an equal amount in each container up to the one with the same genre above. This way the hit movies pay out over several rounds (I'm leaning towards calling each round a month). If there aren't any cards, the movie bombs and only pays the small amount. It is also possible for two or more cards to have the same genre in the same row (for example a drama card in "B" and "E"). If the player made the right movie, they would get payments for each listing (twice in A-B, once in C-E).

However, the cards also can be purchased from this grid, or removed by the AI, and when holes are made, the cards shift left making the genre less popular. I'm trying to make the game so that you have to guess ahead of time what will be popular, and that the cards can't be hoarded.

I do have a question regarding colors. I want to use black and white for two of the three dice/genres/resources. This fits the studio era I'll try to invoke, and should be pretty common colors for the dice. My question is what should I use for the third color? Red is a pretty common dice color and would contrast well with the others, but might not fit too well graphically. Yellow could work better with older films that look more sepia tinted, but personally I have very few yellow dice, and wonder if they're less common in general among PnP players. Grey is similar to yellow in rationale, but I have even fewer grey dice and tokens. Does anybody have an opinion?

Thank you,
Andy
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael R.
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: WIP-Cine-vilzation, a Game for the 2013 Solitaire Design Contest-Brainstorming Phase
I wouldn't worry about dice colour. People will use whatever they have to hand. Red and white dice are probably the most common colours.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John "Omega" Williams
United States
Kentwood
Michigan
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: WIP-Cine-vilzation, a Game for the 2013 Solitaire Design Contest-Brainstorming Phase
and black.

White dice are by far the easiest to come by. Local dollar store sells 5 packs of Bicycle white dice. Pretty good quality and great for stickering.

Another local used to sell 5 packs of multicoloured dice. White, Black, Green, Red, Dark Green.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew H
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: WIP-Cine-vilzation, a Game for the 2013 Solitaire Design Contest-Brainstorming Phase
I didn't do much with my prototype this weekend, we had a birthday party for my son on Sunday, and spent most of Saturday getting ready for it. I did have a few ideas, and will try them out this week.

First, I think I'm going to call the last dice/resource color "techno-color." The player can use any color bits they have, and it fits with the black and white for other films of the era.

I think that I figured a way to switch back to comedy. It would have the sub genres of musical, romance/romantic comedy and family/animation. I would have it represented with the techno-color dice and resources, and in general represent the crew, technology and money.

That allows me to merge art and drama together, and it has the sub-genres of historical, adaptation, and thriller/suspense. It is the white dice and pawns, and represents actors, art and acclaim.

Finally is the black pawns for action movie. The genre includes western, horror, and crime/gangster/cop films and the people/resource is producers, deals and power.

The player would need to use all three while making movies, but will tend to make films in a certain genre, and thus tend to draw those card most frequently. I like the idea of a deck running out being the end of the game, and will try that for awhile.

What I'm trying with the AI, is the rolled dice correspond to a card that gets removed. Removed cards represent another studio inventing/hiring/producing the card. The player can still get it, but at an increased cost.

The next two to three weeks will be busy, but I think I'll have a rough 1.0 prototype by mid to late September.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John "Omega" Williams
United States
Kentwood
Michigan
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: WIP-Cine-vilzation, a Game for the 2013 Solitaire Design Contest-Brainstorming Phase
Small note. Art movies tends to be more a descriptor for style rather than nature. I've seen art cartoons, SF, comedy, horror, adult even.

They tend to be flamboyant, bordering on surreal at times, and often expensive.

Yellow Submarine falls into the art category for a cartoon.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chad Mestdagh
Canada
Edmonton
Alberta
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: WIP-Cine-vilzation, a Game for the 2013 Solitaire Design Contest-Brainstorming Phase
Maybe instead of using money as a resource for comedy, use capital (sp?) instead.

You would probably need money for all three, but capital might entice people to want to work with you more.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew H
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: WIP-Cine-vilzation, a Game for the 2013 Solitaire Design Contest-Brainstorming Phase
Omega2064 wrote:
Small note. Art movies tends to be more a descriptor for style rather than nature. I've seen art cartoons, SF, comedy, horror, adult even.

They tend to be flamboyant, bordering on surreal at times, and often expensive.

Yellow Submarine falls into the art category for a cartoon.

I'll probably have to make a lot of generalizations for all of the genres. I took a few film classes (a long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away it seems) and genre never got a clear definition. People know what it is, but some genre are mostly based on setting, others on character motivations, and other genres are from content. Then you add in cross genres (i.e. Back to the Future, sci-fi comedy, with more character development then many "dramas") and it's even harder to define.

I'm trying to use the three resources and personel types as a general description of where the effort is needed for the different types. For example, a drama still needs camera operators and producer, but has a higher "actor" cost to get the dramatic range. The sub-genre of historical film is very similar, but the crew cost is increased for the period sets and costumes.

I think it will work in a general sense, though it will be a very simplified version of the industry.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew H
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: WIP-Cine-vilzation, a Game for the 2013 Solitaire Design Contest-Brainstorming Phase
radchad wrote:
Maybe instead of using money as a resource for comedy, use capital (sp?) instead.

You would probably need money for all three, but capital might entice people to want to work with you more.

Great point. I like it, and will probably use it. Thank you.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew H
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: WIP-Cine-vilzation, a Game for the 2013 Solitaire Design Contest-Brainstorming Phase
The last two weeks were very busy, but things should calm down a little. It's a three day weekend, and I'm trying to work on a nicer prototype (printed not hand written). I got a lot of things working, and I'm hoping to smooth out few more, and type up a 1.0 rule set to post for feedback.

Where I'm a little stuck, is figuring out a way to keep track of films in production. I'm using the containers to track the time, and this works well, but I find myself forgetting what's in the containers, and have to check frequently. I'd like to figure out something more clear.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael R.
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: WIP-Cine-vilzation, a Game for the 2013 Solitaire Design Contest-Brainstorming Phase
Maybe you need some kind of play board / mat that will allow you to lay out all the components of in production movies. I'd say it's important to be able to see things at a glance. It could be one big one or smaller ones if you need to move them around and reposition them. Or perhaps even the components themselves should be customised (e.g. Tiles with certain info).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew H
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: WIP-Cine-vilzation, a Game for the 2013 Solitaire Design Contest-Brainstorming Phase
mjrobertson wrote:
Maybe you need some kind of play board / mat that will allow you to lay out all the components of in production movies. I'd say it's important to be able to see things at a glance. It could be one big one or smaller ones if you need to move them around and reposition them. Or perhaps even the components themselves should be customised (e.g. Tiles with certain info).

I'm going to try something similar to start. I'm going to try enlarging the board, putting on a new chart, and limiting production to one movie of a certain genre st a time. A top of the chart, I'll have a card that looks like a poster of an old movie, and the player will remove it and keep the poster with their other resources that they decided to use with the film. Then a glance at the chart will show what's missing.

I don't like that it would have a one at a time limit on each genre, since there isn't a similar limit in Hollywood, but it might make the game more challenging, so I''ll at least try it. I think it's at about a .7 version right now, so there is still time to figure out a different solution if it doesn't work.

The Pirates game is looking cool, by the way. When I get into the public playtesting stage, I''ll be trying it out.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael R.
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: WIP-Cine-vilzation, a Game for the 2013 Solitaire Design Contest-Brainstorming Phase
You can easily thematically justify having only 1 type of movie in production at any one time as there are only a limited number of actors suitable for the role and perhaps certain locations and stages are only available at any particular time. You also wouldn't want to saturate the market with only one type of product.

Enforcing certain limits on a game or abstracting certain ideas can certainly be useful and improve the overall experience. I have found that trying to model mechanics super realistically often doesn't really work or serves only to make the game overly clunky.

If you're looking for ideas about how to organise your boards, there's no harm in posting what you've got so far and asking for suggestions on how you might improve it. Someone might come up with a great idea that you haven't thought of yet.

As for my Pirates game, today I'm working on formalizing the rules document and getting it up to scratch. A publicly playable version should be available in a week or so.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew H
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: WIP-Cine-vilzation, a Game for the 2013 Solitaire Design Contest-Brainstorming Phase
I nearly finished a prototype and got about halfway through the rules. I hope to finish up both by this weekend. Working on both gave me a lot of new ideas, but given time consideration, I don't suspect I'll be able to try them out. I think I'll be able to finish it as a base game, and will upload other things that work as variants, at some future time.

I will warn you that the graphics are very utilitarian, and probably will remain so for the contest version. I have a lot of things on the cards, and don't have much room for other pictures, and am a bit concerned about the time it would take too.

Now to hype up things a little after that, I have to say I really feel like the container system is working. It gives a little RTS like feeling, which makes me like the Cine-vilzation name is valid. I hope to post a prototype soon, so you can try it out.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael R.
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: WIP-Cine-vilzation, a Game for the 2013 Solitaire Design Contest-Brainstorming Phase
I'm totally unconcerned about graphics and am totally fine with all text cards etc. Unless your day job involves artistic creation it's quite a big ask to design a game and then work on graphics. There just isn't enough time left to do both.

You could take the approach that I'm taking with my game, which is to present it as a reasonable 'proof of concept'. Show that the base game has a robust engine and that the core idea is strong. It's unlikely that any game entered into the contest is going to be super balanced so don't try to do too much in that respect. Designers are the worst at testing their own game.

As people say, designing a game is easy but carrying on with weeks and months of tweaking and balancing is when the work really begins.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the mechanics work.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew H
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: WIP-Cine-vilzation, a Game for the 2013 Solitaire Design Contest-Brainstorming Phase
mjrobertson wrote:
I'm totally unconcerned about graphics and am totally fine with all text cards etc. Unless your day job involves artistic creation it's quite a big ask to design a game and then work on graphics. There just isn't enough time left to do both.

You could take the approach that I'm taking with my game, which is to present it as a reasonable 'proof of concept'. Show that the base game has a robust engine and that the core idea is strong. It's unlikely that any game entered into the contest is going to be super balanced so don't try to do too much in that respect. Designers are the worst at testing their own game.

As people say, designing a game is easy but carrying on with weeks and months of tweaking and balancing is when the work really begins.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the mechanics work.

Thank you, that's what I'm hoping to accomplish too.

In the graphics department, I am very much a designer too, not an artist. I'm ok with Photoshop, but usually that means working with existing pictures. There's a lot of pictures of old Hollywood, so I might be able to get something on the board, but the cards will probably be art free.
,
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5  Next »   |