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Subject: Combat tie / Cleric Heal / Troll regen rss

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Matthew Wills
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a) The rules state on Page 8 (regarding combat):

'In the case of a tie, nothing happens and the player whose turn it is can decide to spend 1 new AP to initiate a new combat.'

It is unclear to me whether the 'new AP' reference means:

i) The attacker gets the 1 AP he used to attack back.
ii) The attacker can initiate another attack for free.
iii) The attacker can initiate the same attack (if he chooses) at a cost of 1 AP.

b) When the Cleric heals:

'The healed character is not allowed to do anything else during this turn.'

When a Troll regenerates:

'During the turn he regenerates, the Troll cannot carry out any additional Action.'

i) If the Troll regenerated himself and then a nearby friendly character initiated a group combat, could he join in?
ii) If the Cleric healed the Troll and then a nearby friendly character initiated a group combat, could he (the Troll) join in?
iii) If the Troll regenerated himself, could he pick up any object on his space (and if so, when?) that he dropped when he was wounded?
iv) If the Cleric healed the Troll, could he (the Troll) pick up any object on his space (and if so, when?) that he dropped when he was wounded?
v) Are there any other instances where the two statements are not 'equivalent' (ie where 'cannot carry out any additional Action' is not the same as 'is not allowed to do anything else')?
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S J
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Re: Combat and Special Abilities
Good questions.

For a) I think it is fairly clear in the context of that rule that "new" AP means "different" or an "unused" AP. You can initate the same attack, but it will cost you an additional or "new" AP to do so.

For b) It is less clear to me. I will give you my guesses but am curious what other people who have played it more have to say about it to.

I have not played it that regeneration is different than healing. I don't think I would count any character that is healing or regenerating as part of group combat, just on the idea that they are still recovering and unable to fight until the next turn. I would consider them fully healed at the start of the opponents turn. Therefore they could be part of group combat if the opponent initiated it on their next turn. As for them dropping the objects, I guess I don't quite see how that matters. If you are wounded when it is the opponents turn they can pass over you and take the item off the floor. If you are healed or regenerated before it is their turn, they can't enter your space and get the item regardless if it is on the floor or not. The only possible exception to this would be the wizard who can float over enemy characters. I have never thought that the wizard's levitate would allow them to get an item from a no longer wounded but recently healed/regenerated character.

But that is just my guess, I am curious to see what other responses this gets.
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Matthew Wills
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Re: Combat and Special Abilities
starscream wrote:
As for them dropping the objects, I guess I don't quite see how that matters.


I ask because the rules associate picking up an object with stopping on an object or passing over them (neither of which is happening with regeneration or healing).

Also, if the item was Armor/Sword and the character was involved in group combat (on my turn or the opponent's turn) it would make a difference if my character could / could not pick up the item when healed / regenerated.
 
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Eric Franklin
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Re: Combat and Special Abilities
mjwills wrote:
a) The rules state on Page 8 (regarding combat):

'In the case of a tie, nothing happens and the player whose turn it is can decide to spend 1 new AP to initiate a new combat.'

It is unclear to me whether the 'new AP' reference means:

i) The attacker gets the 1 AP he used to attack back.
ii) The attacker can initiate another attack for free.
iii) The attacker can initiate the same attack (if he chooses) at a cost of 1 AP.


iii - the AP spent to initiate the initial combat was spent with no effect. The active player may spend another AP to attack again, if they so desire.

Quote:
b) When the Cleric heals:

'The healed character is not allowed to do anything else during this turn.'

When a Troll regenerates:

'During the turn he regenerates, the Troll cannot carry out any additional Action.'

i) If the Troll regenerated himself and then a nearby friendly character initiated a group combat, could he join in?


I checked this one with the French FAQ. No - the Troll cannot take an additional action or participate in an additional action.

Quote:
ii) If the Cleric healed the Troll and then a nearby friendly character initiated a group combat, could he (the Troll) join in?


Again - no. After healing, a character is done for the turn, including assists in a friendly action.

Quote:
iii) If the Troll regenerated himself, could he pick up any object on his space (and if so, when?) that he dropped when he was wounded?


A character is assumed to be holding/using any object which is in their same space. A wounded character with armor still gets the benefit of the armor. Yes, a hostile character can move through and steal the armor, but until that's done, the Troll is wearing that armor.

Quote:
iv) If the Cleric healed the Troll, could he (the Troll) pick up any object on his space (and if so, when?) that he dropped when he was wounded?


Again - a wounded character is assumed to be using an object in the same square.

Quote:
v) Are there any other instances where the two statements are not 'equivalent' (ie where 'cannot carry out any additional Action' is not the same as 'is not allowed to do anything else')?


Not that I can think of, but I'm not perfect. Sherinford? Got any I don't know of?

Eric
 
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Fabrice Wiels
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Re: Combat and Special Abilities
Gamethyme wrote:
Quote:
v) Are there any other instances where the two statements are not 'equivalent' (ie where 'cannot carry out any additional Action' is not the same as 'is not allowed to do anything else')?


Not that I can think of, but I'm not perfect. Sherinford? Got any I don't know of?

Eric


Nope. I think you have covered it all...

A character healed by the cleric or a troll who just regenerated are in the same situation: they cannot do anything else that turn.

The only distinction there is between these two powers is that the troll who just got wounded cannot regenerate on the same turn. On the other hand, the cleric can very well heal a character who just got wounded because the acting player bluffed with a combat card...

Note that the power of the fountains (in Paladin and Dragon) work differently and allows a character who just healed to act immediatly.
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Vincent Perry
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Re: Combat and Special Abilities
Quote:


Again - no. After healing, a character is done for the turn, including assists in a friendly action.


My understanding is that participating in group combat is not a choice. This interpretation of the rules seems somolar to saying "No, you can't attack my troll...I just healed him...he can't participate in combat."

I believe your interpretation is incorrect. Recently healed characters cannot spend AP. This does not revent them from involuntarily participating in group combat.
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Eric Franklin
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Re: Combat and Special Abilities
theodorelogan wrote:
Quote:


Again - no. After healing, a character is done for the turn, including assists in a friendly action.


My understanding is that participating in group combat is not a choice. This interpretation of the rules seems somolar to saying "No, you can't attack my troll...I just healed him...he can't participate in combat."

I believe your interpretation is incorrect. Recently healed characters cannot spend AP. This does not revent them from involuntarily participating in group combat.


Group combat is not a choice for most characters, it's true. However, the inability to do anything on the same turn in which you regenerated or were healed by the Cleric overrides this.

Remember also that this restriction only applies on my turn. If I heal my troll, and then spend an action to attack, my Troll needs to rest, and will back away from the fight. If, however, you attack me on your turn, my Troll is back to normal and will gladly jump in to assist.

Eric
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