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Subject: A few rules questions... rss

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Alex Limoges
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1. The rules state (9.) that in the Axis combat phase (normal, not expl.), the Axis are free to attack or not, but if they decide to do so, an attacking unit has to attack ALL adjacent units to its hex.

This seems to be in conflict with the document I read at the Avalanche site ("Learn to play RV in just 5 minutes"), where the designer writes (1st page):

"The Axis player does not have to attack every adjacent unit (he can attack or not, and can select which units to attack in both the Combat and exploitation combat phases".

Which interpretation is right ? I know that one usually goes with the rules in cases like this, but I wonder, since if the designer wrote this... maybe he's playing this way and intended the game to be played like this !


2. Rule 12.22 tells us when the Soviet Marine Division arrives (1st organization after the Heavy Surface level is reached in the Baltic sea). But I cannot find the rule about the German Marine Division. When and where does it arrive ? Is it there at the start ? If it's the case, does it do anything special ?


3. The Terrain effect Chart is in contradiction with the rules in two places: Swamp (armor attack strenght halved, or minus 1 ?) and Rough (every defender + 1, or Total defender +1 )


4. Victory points (casualties): does one keep track of the eliminated units, or do you just count the units that are out at the end ? It makes a difference, since some will come in again as replacement, which means that they don't appear as eliminated units for scoring anymore...


5. The rules first states that leaders have a movement of 6, but then, it seems that only Dietrich does. Khonev, Zhukov and Tito have lower ratings. Just checking...


6. Lastly: I found the Retreats rule just a bit vague... What can a unit really do when it retreats ? I mean, since there are no retreat priorities, my gaming partner and I have actually been retreating in such ways that we were strategically replacing our units !

a) does every retreat hex have to be farther directly towards the map edge ?

b) Can you choose, or do you have to pick the hex that seems to be going STRAIGHT towards the edge if possible ? We have often been retreating towards the edge, but leaning north or south for strategic reasons...

c) Do I understand right, that a unit who has to retreat even a little closer to the other player's edge (forward is said to be illegal, which is normal) cannot do so and must stay in place (taking all hits).

I will also post these question on BGG, but the page on the game does not seem to have any entries !
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A few of these I'm foggy on, myself. I'll answer them as best as I can having played the game a few times.

1.)Yeah, this was kind of odd for us. The Rules pretty much state that attacking Axis units have to attack everything around them. This makes the game pretty impossible for the Axis though, as in many cases if a front forms up, the Axis either have the option of losing half their forces in any attack, or falling back. After reading the pdf file, we went with that method, and the game is much more fun for both players.

2.)The German Marine chit is marked with a turn 10 reinforcement indicator. We played them as standard reinforcements on turn 10.

3.)Yeah, this is pretty glaring. We played it with the Terrain Chart.

4.)15.2 says "At the end of the game". I'm assuming this means only corps and armies that are eliminated/reduced as of April '45.

5.)11.25 is a misprint I think. Both 11.22 and 6.1 confirm that all leaders have 6 MP.

6.)Retreating units must be retreating in the direction of your map edge, or to the nearest friendly city if the map edge isn't possible. It doesn't specify whether or not you have to go straight, as long as it's to a friendly edge. We assume this means that it's backwards movement only.
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Jonathan
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A couple of these questions have been posted on Consimworld, so I'll post the answers.

Quote:
3. The Terrain effect Chart is in contradiction with the rules in two places: Swamp (armor attack strenght halved, or minus 1 ?) and Rough (every defender + 1, or Total defender +1 )


In a swamp, the armor attack in halved (ignore TEC). For rough, every defender adds 1 (ignore rulebook).


Quote:
4. Victory points (casualties): does one keep track of the eliminated units, or do you just count the units that are out at the end ? It makes a difference, since some will come in again as replacement, which means that they don't appear as eliminated units for scoring anymore...


All eliminated units are counted. Even ones brought back into the game. This means that a unit can be counted more than once (eliminated, brought back, eliminated again).

 
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Alex Limoges
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I have another question: It's about group fights in Red Vengance. The "Learn to play RV in 5 minutes" article shows that we can decide to attack from multiple hexes against multiple enemy hexes in one fight.

Let's say that 4 hexes of Russian units, for a total of 8 units and a 50 attack strenght attack 5 hexes of German units, for a total of 7 units and a 40 attack st.

The russian score 8 hits, the German score 7.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it means that:

RUSSIANS (attacker): Must take 7 hits, OR, take 6 hits as step losses and reatreat EACH and EVERY attacking unit by one hex.

GERMANS: Can take ONE step loss, then retreat 7 hexes, OR make any combination of step losses/retreats, as long as at least one unit takes one step loss, and as long as all hexes of retreat are made by EACH and EVERY unit.

For some reason, it seems just a bit odd... so I want to make sure.
It changes a lot whether you're making one big attack instead of, say, 4 small ones, because you might make less reatreats... Think of the attacker in the example. In the case of this large battle, he has no reason to ever retreat any unit, since this retreat of all units can absorb only one step loss. If there had been 4 small battles, he probably could have absorbed more step loss by retreating for the same result...
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Alex Limoges
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In the example of play, it says that the Russian attack has to be planned is such a way that all german units adjacent to Russian units have to be attacked, but that the units can afterwards attack as they like, as long as every unit is attacked. But in the rules, it is said that when a unit attacks, it has to attack all adjacent units to itself...
 
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Nameless Necromancer
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Casualty points are counted at the end of the game, for Alex's question #4.
 
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Joshua O'Connor
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Solipsist wrote:
1. The rules state (9.) that in the Axis combat phase (normal, not expl.), the Axis are free to attack or not, but if they decide to do so, an attacking unit has to attack ALL adjacent units to its hex.

This seems to be in conflict with the document I read at the Avalanche site ("Learn to play RV in just 5 minutes"), where the designer writes (1st page):

"The Axis player does not have to attack every adjacent unit (he can attack or not, and can select which units to attack in both the Combat and exploitation combat phases".

Which interpretation is right ? I know that one usually goes with the rules in cases like this, but I wonder, since if the designer wrote this... maybe he's playing this way and intended the game to be played like this !

Just bought this as an introductory wargame so would be really great if the designer could answer this one. Before I realized I was in error, I initially let Soviets choose which hex to combat, which of course limited their losses a lot. It would be a major advantage for the Germans if they could choose their battles.
 
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Joshua Gottesman
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Solipsist wrote:
I have another question: It's about group fights in Red Vengance. The "Learn to play RV in 5 minutes" article shows that we can decide to attack from multiple hexes against multiple enemy hexes in one fight.

Let's say that 4 hexes of Russian units, for a total of 8 units and a 50 attack strenght attack 5 hexes of German units, for a total of 7 units and a 40 attack st.

The russian score 8 hits, the German score 7.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it means that:

RUSSIANS (attacker): Must take 7 hits, OR, take 6 hits as step losses and reatreat EACH and EVERY attacking unit by one hex.

GERMANS: Can take ONE step loss, then retreat 7 hexes, OR make any combination of step losses/retreats, as long as at least one unit takes one step loss, and as long as all hexes of retreat are made by EACH and EVERY unit.

For some reason, it seems just a bit odd... so I want to make sure.
It changes a lot whether you're making one big attack instead of, say, 4 small ones, because you might make less reatreats... Think of the attacker in the example. In the case of this large battle, he has no reason to ever retreat any unit, since this retreat of all units can absorb only one step loss. If there had been 4 small battles, he probably could have absorbed more step loss by retreating for the same result...


I was glancing at some of the articles on the AP site, and in the strategy article, they mention:

Quote:
Finally, managing retreats is very important as well. Units which take multiple hits when attacked can avoid step losses by retreating a number of hexes equal to the number of step losses they wish to avoid (attacking units can only avoid one step loss by retreating). The decision of how many step losses to take and how many hexes to retreat depends on how far those units will be able to advance (using regular, strategic and exploitation movement) in their next turn. Players must manage their retreats carefully to minimize damage while blunting Russian advances (if German) or maintaining forward momentum (if Russian).


So, I think they want to give you this dilemma. You can gamble on one huge offensive, and if it goes wrong, you lose either a lot of troops or a lot of territory (which = time) or you can do more localized attacks and have to give up less ground if it doesn't work, you just risk a less spectacular breakthrough.

In the case of the Germans, how much ground can they afford to lose by converting step losses into retreats? I think this would be a major concern.
 
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Personally, I think that both Marine divisions shouldn't be used in a Corp/Army level game. They're bit players at best, and if one is going to include them, there are tons of other division or Corps-equivalent units that should be in the game as well, like, say, the Feldherrenhall division, which appears to be a Corp level unit by the March game turn.

My two cents.

2. Rule 12.22 tells us when the Soviet Marine Division arrives (1st organization after the Heavy Surface level is reached in the Baltic sea). But I cannot find the rule about the German Marine Division. When and where does it arrive ? Is it there at the start ? If it's the case, does it do anything special ?
 
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