Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
18 Posts

Android: Netrunner» Forums » Rules

Subject: Midori + howler rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Oscar Iglesias
Spain
Alcobendas
Madrid
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Runner encounters Howler and dont break subrutine.
Corp installs "whatever" behind Howler.
Runner continues the run.
Corp uses Midori to swap "whatever" with "something", and pays all the cost.

What happens when the encounter ends?
The ICE from Howler is no more in play so no ICE can be derezzed.
And, what about Howler? is it trashed? The first part of the clause may not be acomplished.
"If you do, derez that piece of ice and trash Howler after the run is completed."
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Kudzma
United States
Millsboro
Delaware
flag msg tools
designer
People are...
badge
SPOCKED!!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Howler is trashed. Just because you cannot do the first part does not mean you don't do the second.

Seems silly to swap a rezzed piece of ice with an unrezzed one. Forget I said that
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carl Bussema
United States
Lansing
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Heh, the ultimate mindgame.

"What is he bringing in that's worse than a free Ichi 2.0?"
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Keys
Canada
Calgary
Alberta
flag msg tools
Interrupt.
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Howler would still be trashed, but if you opt to rez whatever you swapped in with Midori, it would not be derezzed. This is because the ICE that Howler is referring to that should be derezzed is no longer in play.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven Tu
South Africa
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Why... Would you not just swap out Howler? I don't quite understand.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven
United States
Spokane
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
"The mystery of life isn't a problem to solve, but a reality to experience"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tuism wrote:
Why... Would you not just swap out Howler? I don't quite understand.


Actually that made me think of an interesting situation:

Server:

(Whirlpool, optional)
Howler
...
Cell Portal
---
Midori

After Howler's subroutine triggers, place a bioroid behind Howler. Later, Cell portal's subroutine triggers. Repeat as needed. Finally, as the runner approaches Howler, you swap out Howler with another ice.

After the run is complete does the bioroid(s), installed by Howler, derez?

EDIT: Minor corrections.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Oscar Iglesias
Spain
Alcobendas
Madrid
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It seems fair and what logic dictates, but sometimes the "and" implies that either both clauses are fulfilled or none.

Tuism wrote:
Why... Would you not just swap out Howler? I don't quite understand.


I don't know.
The person who raised the question to me is a HB player who loves combos. If Howler remained in this case should be a nice strategy to put extra ICE in the middle of the run.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven Tu
South Africa
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
SW_Cygnus wrote:
Tuism wrote:
Why... Would you not just swap out Howler? I don't quite understand.


Actually that made me think of an interesting situation:

Server:

(Whirlpool, optional)
Howler
...
Cell Portal
---
Midori

After Howler's subroutine triggers, place a bioroid behind Howler. Later, Cell portal's subroutine triggers. As the runner approaches Howler, you swap out Howler with another ice.

After the run is complete does the bioroid, installed by Howler, derez?

EDIT: Minor corrections.


Yeah, cos it's like Josh B - it's a single ability. Removing the source of the effect doesn't kill the effect.

It would be fun if that *ever* happens
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven Tu
South Africa
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Shkar wrote:
It seems fair and what logic dictates, but sometimes the "and" implies that either both clauses are fulfilled or none.

Tuism wrote:
Why... Would you not just swap out Howler? I don't quite understand.


I don't know.
The person who raised the question to me is a HB player who loves combos. If Howler remained in this case should be a nice strategy to put extra ICE in the middle of the run.


Sure, but yes the Howler *will* be trashed because it's not an ability dependant on another part.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven
United States
Spokane
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
"The mystery of life isn't a problem to solve, but a reality to experience"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for answering my question Tuism.

It is probably an impossible combo to pull off, although Levy University might help.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven Tu
South Africa
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
SW_Cygnus wrote:
Thanks for answering my question Tuism.

It is probably an impossible combo to pull off, although Levy University might help.


Well the thing is people will jack out after Cell Portal, then you don't even get to swap Howler Unless you add Whirlpool... Then... Lol, massive combo for not very good profit
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeremy Larner
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Tuism wrote:
SW_Cygnus wrote:
Thanks for answering my question Tuism.

It is probably an impossible combo to pull off, although Levy University might help.


Well the thing is people will jack out after Cell Portal, then you don't even get to swap Howler Unless you add Whirlpool... Then... Lol, massive combo for not very good profit


I'm pretty sure they can't jack out after Cell Portal (where's your timing diagram!?!). The have to approach before they get he chance, so Midoris ability will have already triggered.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven Tu
South Africa
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jadiel wrote:
Tuism wrote:
SW_Cygnus wrote:
Thanks for answering my question Tuism.

It is probably an impossible combo to pull off, although Levy University might help.


Well the thing is people will jack out after Cell Portal, then you don't even get to swap Howler Unless you add Whirlpool... Then... Lol, massive combo for not very good profit


I'm pretty sure they can't jack out after Cell Portal (where's your timing diagram!?!). The have to approach before they get he chance, so Midoris ability will have already triggered.


Oooooh, you're right, Midori triggers at approach, and jack out chance is after approach. I thought it was during approach that you can choose to jack out (kind of is), so technically midori happens first before the runner can jack out.

Good one
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Owais Aziz
Saudi Arabia
Jeddah
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Runner can choose to jack out after Cell Portal subroutine is effective. See page 10 of errata published by fantasy flight.

Also Midori must be rezzed after Cell Portal is rezzed. See page 7 of errata.

If a new ice is installed using Midori - then the runner can jack out. See timing structure diagram on page 14 of errata.

So Steve is right. The only way for a Howler + Cell Portal + Midori Combo to work is to install a Whirlpool first.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeremy Larner
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Ovaldo wrote:
Runner can choose to jack out after Cell Portal subroutine is effective. See page 10 of errata published by fantasy flight.

Also Midori must be rezzed after Cell Portal is rezzed. See page 7 of errata.


I don't think I agree with you. It seems to me that pg 10 of the FAQ is merely clarifying that the "(cannot jack out if this is the first piece of ice approached this run)" text in 2.2 doesn't apply the second time that piece of ice is approached (due to Cell Portal's ability).

Cell Portal resolves, derezzing itself and sending the runner to 2. on the timing diagram, approaching the first piece of ice (Howler here). Midori triggers, and the swap takes place before the runner gets the opportunity to jack out at 2.2.

Not sure what you mean by the pg.7 ruling - you're just clarifying that you have to rez Midori before you can use her? IF so, yes you're right, Midori should be rezzed in 2.3 while approaching Cell Portal, but this doesn't interfere with the combo in any way.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven Tu
South Africa
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wait wait, it seems I'm confusing people here.

Known fact: you can jack out after cell portal derezzes, before encountering the first piece of ice.

Known fact: midori's swap leaves time for runners to jack out.

Known fact: howler's swap also leaves time for runners to jack out.

So all of these May happen, they just all individually leave timing for the runner to jack out still.

So whatever you do, the runner has timing to jack out. What's the point of the combo?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeremy Larner
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Server is: Midori, Cell Portal, Howler

Runner encounters Howler, and the corp pulls a Victor 2.0 from Archives and rezzes it behind Howler. Runner doesnt have a code gate breaker, but wants to get in so they break Victor with clicks and continue. Corp rezzes Cell Portal and Midori. Cell Portal resolves, runner goes to approaching Howler, Midori triggers, switching Howler with Neural Katana, and the runner decides to jack out (this is the first opportunity the runner has had to jack out since they approached an unrezzed Cell Portal).

Corp has fished a Victor 2.0 from their archives, built a 3 (unrezzed) ice server, and still has Howler in hand.

I don't think anyone's implying it's a great combo, just an interesting illustrative example of strange ice subroutines and the timing rules involved in runs.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven Tu
South Africa
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jadiel wrote:
Server is: Midori, Cell Portal, Howler

Runner encounters Howler, and the corp pulls a Victor 2.0 from Archives and rezzes it behind Howler. Runner doesnt have a code gate breaker, but wants to get in so they break Victor with clicks and continue. Corp rezzes Cell Portal and Midori. Cell Portal resolves, runner goes to approaching Howler, Midori triggers, switching Howler with Neural Katana, and the runner decides to jack out (this is the first opportunity the runner has had to jack out since they approached an unrezzed Cell Portal).

Corp has fished a Victor 2.0 from their archives, built a 3 (unrezzed) ice server, and still has Howler in hand.

I don't think anyone's implying it's a great combo, just an interesting illustrative example of strange ice subroutines and the timing rules involved in runs.


Interesting
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.