Mike Adachi
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(From the looky-what-my-flgs-just-got-in-today thread)


The character cards look ok, but the other cards? Wtf is this design? I know there will be the mandatory "I like it" and "it doesn't matter what it looks like only what how it plays" replies to this, but seriously:

* Monochrome colour schemes that looks like prototypes made in Word.
* Pastelle colours like from Miami Vice (no, Vice, not Dice!).
* Textboxes that looks like Word tables with a standard template set.
* Blank white whitespace everywhere wasting card estate.
* With all that whitespace, the oversmall font is a mystery.
* Speaking of the font: drab, dull, boring, immersion-breaking.
* Icons and keywords spread everywhere in different sizes so as to make the card as incoherent and un-ergonomic to read as possible.
* Poor contrast with white text on pastelle background (and in small font sizes to add insult to injury) at some places to maximise unreadability.
* Huge and incongruent logo on top of every card.
* Those tables. TABLES! And that looks like, again, Word tables!

The game might be great, but this is the foulest card design and layout I've ever seen from a large producer. And for such a high-profile title... It is simply incomprehenisble! Even though I love Pathfinder I can't make myself use much less purchase such a graphical turd.

The reasons for graphical design are two-fold:
1) Aesthetics
2) Ergonomics

A design is aesthetic when it is
* Pleasing to the eye
* Inspirational/suitable/facilitiates immersion

A design is ergonomic when it is
* Readable ("scannable" and legiable)
* Informational (obvious, structured and consistent)

This design fulfils NONE of these criteria! It actually goes AGAINST all of them!! Who came up with it? How could it have gone through QC?! Again: for such a high-profile game!

This game joins the ranks of Glory to Rome in terms of design disaster. Actually, it is worse, for GtR was just ugly and misfitting the mechanics and theme, but this design actually is user-adverse...

What happened?!
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Seth Pontiff
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I could be wrong, but this just may be the way the demo kit was made. Finished product may vary.
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Nerds call me
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Yeah, the cards could definitely look better. The backs of the cards look like vomit, to be honest. But, I firmly believe gameplay trumps graphical representation and, from what I have seen and read, the gameplay is there for us.
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Knobbly Savage
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Fryd Pickles wrote:
I could be wrong, but this just may be the way the demo kit was made. Finished product may vary.


The cards in the rulebook and everything they released looked the same - with the game almost out, it would be really weird if all they were releasing were preliminary designs (and without mentioning it)...
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Vernon Evenhuis
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I was initially pretty excited about this game, to a point where I was absolutely going to purchase it, but I have to admit I'm having second thoughts now that I've seen a good sampling of the cards. They really are pretty bland and uninspiring. Very disappointed. I'll have to see how the reviews go. If the game play is absolutely brilliant, I may be able to overlook the ugly design of the cards.
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chris leko
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Some of the e criticisms I understand, but how can font be immersion breaking? That just seems like nitpicking.
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Scott Forster
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often wrote:
Some of the e criticisms I understand, but how can font be immersion breaking? That just seems like nitpicking.


It should be in an awful handwriting font, apparently, to make this guy happy. Possibly hand-scribed on vellum.
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Paul M
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forster925 wrote:
often wrote:
Some of the e criticisms I understand, but how can font be immersion breaking? That just seems like nitpicking.


It should be in an awful handwriting font, apparently, to make this guy happy. Possibly hand-scribed on vellum.

Maybe OP is a Comic Sans guy?
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Darth Ed
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When I saw the cards on Watch It Played, I figured they were just prototype cards, and I hoped the release cards would look better. I'm worried that's not the case. I would say the cards exhibit a functional design but not one that I consider pleasing.
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Mark Buetow
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I like it it. Plus, it doesn't matter what it looks like but how it plays.
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Dallas Honeycutt
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Wow, you guys are way too picky. Silly me, I always thought that the point of a game was to enjoy playing it, not to sit around looking at how pretty the cards are..........
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Thomas King
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I think by now the piss poor graphic design may be the biggest complaint against the game, even from people still hoping/believing the game could be great. It could be an amazing game. It might be one of the best card games EVER; but there's no denying it's one of the ugliest card games in a long time. Long time.
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T France
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Could it possibly be the Defenders of the Realm of card games?!?!?!...
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Tristan Brunet
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Well, I don't think this design worse thant the late DD games cards. Look at the Castle Ravenloft/WoA/LoD cards ! They're much worse than those, in the blandness department. I'd say those cards are on par with the Dungeon Command ones, which were not great, but did the job well.

At first, I didn't enjoy this graphic design too. But the problem with this game design is that there are a LOT of written informations of the cards. Had they gone with a "fantasy-like" font, most of those would have been much harder to figure out. Be happy there ARE specific arts for each card (they did a lot of new awesome art for this game): that's by far the most important thematic thing for me (yeah, Ravenloft and co, I'm looking at you !:devil:). And the graphic homogeneity of the Pathfinder world (based on the artworks from Wayne Reynolds) is really a plus for me.

Moreover, the graphic design of the game fits with the other Pathfinder games, most espacially with the Beginner's box, which is the other main introductive product to the Pathfinder world. This graphic design reflects the Rpg roots of the game. Once again, that's a good thing in my book.
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We've discussed this a few times and like I said in the other thread, the cards look like an intern took a monster sh!t on a stack of precut card stock, threw it in a box with a Pathfinder logo on it, and called it the Pathfinder Adventure Card Game.

Without question the most poorly designed professional cards I've ever seen... and while gameplay trumps looks, there's absolutely no reason a game can't look good and play well at the same time, especially considering that Paizo is a major publisher who already had the art assets. Paizo seriously can't afford to pay a freelancer $200 to come up with a decent design?

Couldn't agree with you more, and many of the cards are just flat out repulsive to look at.
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Cort Kinman
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While I am new to this web site I will say I really do not see what is bad about these. I come from the RPG background of the game so I do not have the experience of most of the posters at this web site in board games. But these cards have the same basic pictures that are in the adventure path and for the iconics in the RPG. I have played the demo at a store and everyone pretty much liked it.

I must be missing the point as they look perfectly good to me and everyone could read the cards fine and enjoyed the demo. The impression I get from the OP is kind of like when people in art appreciation class pick apart a painting, poem, or movie or something. Not trying to troll or anything as I understand people like that kind of activity... I just do not get how these are bad at all.

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Thomas King
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Thazar wrote:
While I am new to this web site I will say I really do not see what is bad about these. I come from the RPG background of the game so I do not have the experience of most of the posters at this web site in board games. But these cards have the same basic pictures that are in the adventure path and for the iconics in the RPG. I have played the demo at a store and everyone pretty much liked it.

I must be missing the point as they look perfectly good to me and everyone could read the cards fine and enjoyed the demo. The impression I get from the OP is kind of like when people in art appreciation class pick apart a painting, poem, or movie or something. Not trying to troll or anything as I understand people like that kind of activity... I just do not get how these are bad at all.

It's okay, I don't think you have enough exposure to the board and card game industry to get what the issue is. When you've seen how good things can look in other games, you're not as willing to accept bare minimum. But by the same token, if you've never seen gold or silver, then copper and tin might look pretty cool to you.

edit: Hope that didn't sound patronizing or anything, just that you said you come from an RPg background and are new to the site. If you look at a lot of other board and card games, the difference becomes much more apparent.
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Montag451 wrote:
Thazar wrote:
While I am new to this web site I will say I really do not see what is bad about these. I come from the RPG background of the game so I do not have the experience of most of the posters at this web site in board games. But these cards have the same basic pictures that are in the adventure path and for the iconics in the RPG. I have played the demo at a store and everyone pretty much liked it.

I must be missing the point as they look perfectly good to me and everyone could read the cards fine and enjoyed the demo. The impression I get from the OP is kind of like when people in art appreciation class pick apart a painting, poem, or movie or something. Not trying to troll or anything as I understand people like that kind of activity... I just do not get how these are bad at all.

It's okay, I don't think you have enough exposure to the board and card game industry to get what the issue is. When you've seen how good things can look in other games, you're not as willing to accept bare minimum. But by the same token, if you've never seen gold or silver, then copper and tin might look pretty cool to you.



Yeah, new guy, your opinion can't be right. shake
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Simone C.
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We are talling about the design of the cards, not the gameplay so we can't say it is good! Yes, it's RPG-style, but it's poor and dry and uninspiring, they could do a lot better job, don't know why they chose this, probably to reduce the costs? It will be definitly a point of cons for this game..
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Dallas Honeycutt
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Montag451 wrote:
Thazar wrote:
While I am new to this web site I will say I really do not see what is bad about these. I come from the RPG background of the game so I do not have the experience of most of the posters at this web site in board games. But these cards have the same basic pictures that are in the adventure path and for the iconics in the RPG. I have played the demo at a store and everyone pretty much liked it.

I must be missing the point as they look perfectly good to me and everyone could read the cards fine and enjoyed the demo. The impression I get from the OP is kind of like when people in art appreciation class pick apart a painting, poem, or movie or something. Not trying to troll or anything as I understand people like that kind of activity... I just do not get how these are bad at all.

It's okay, I don't think you have enough exposure to the board and card game industry to get what the issue is. When you've seen how good things can look in other games, you're not as willing to accept bare minimum. But by the same token, if you've never seen gold or silver, then copper and tin might look pretty cool to you.

edit: Hope that didn't sound patronizing or anything, just that you said you come from an RPg background and are new to the site. If you look at a lot of other board and card games, the difference becomes much more apparent.


Wow, could you possibly be any more pompous than this? Are you seriously trying to tell this person that they don't see a problem because they don't know any better? And I suppose that because I don;t see a problem that I am some hapless rube that is too dumb to know the difference? I would really like to operate under the impression that you just made a slip of the tongue and didn't realize just how bad this post sounded, but I am afraid I am wrong about that as well.
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Doc Hogan
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Malacandra wrote:
I like it it. Plus, it doesn't matter what it looks like but how it plays.
Tell that to me again when you hit your late 40's and your eyesight ain't what it used to be

Small, low-contrast font? That does take this down for me, from pre-order to try-it-first-and-see. How disappointing, I was really looking forward to a CSI box in the next two weeks.
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Thomas King
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Talon378 wrote:
Montag451 wrote:
Thazar wrote:
While I am new to this web site I will say I really do not see what is bad about these. I come from the RPG background of the game so I do not have the experience of most of the posters at this web site in board games. But these cards have the same basic pictures that are in the adventure path and for the iconics in the RPG. I have played the demo at a store and everyone pretty much liked it.

I must be missing the point as they look perfectly good to me and everyone could read the cards fine and enjoyed the demo. The impression I get from the OP is kind of like when people in art appreciation class pick apart a painting, poem, or movie or something. Not trying to troll or anything as I understand people like that kind of activity... I just do not get how these are bad at all.

It's okay, I don't think you have enough exposure to the board and card game industry to get what the issue is. When you've seen how good things can look in other games, you're not as willing to accept bare minimum. But by the same token, if you've never seen gold or silver, then copper and tin might look pretty cool to you.

edit: Hope that didn't sound patronizing or anything, just that you said you come from an RPg background and are new to the site. If you look at a lot of other board and card games, the difference becomes much more apparent.


Wow, could you possibly be any more pompous than this? Are you seriously trying to tell this person that they don't see a problem because they don't know any better? And I suppose that because I don;t see a problem that I am some hapless rube that is too dumb to know the difference? I would really like to operate under the impression that you just made a slip of the tongue and didn't realize just how bad this post sounded, but I am afraid I am wrong about that as well.
I did add an edit, you read that right? (you quoted it).

Yeah, the initial post read poorly, wasn't meant to.

Point is, it's not about opinion but perspective. He admitted he comes from an RPG background, as well as being new to the site. I assume that when he says, "I just do not get how these are bad at all." it's because he has not played/seen many games with a really good graphic design. He's perfectly allowed to like it all he wants, I was trying (poorly) to highlight why he didn't understand; he doesn't have our perspective. If he were to look around at other games, he might understand (even if not agree with) our complaint.
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dochogan wrote:
Malacandra wrote:
I like it it. Plus, it doesn't matter what it looks like but how it plays.
Tell that to me again when you hit your late 40's and your eyesight ain't what it used to be

Small, low-contrast font? That does take this down for me, from pre-order to try-it-first-and-see. How disappointing, I was really looking forward to a CSI box in the next two weeks.


First of all, my comment was mandatory. See the OP. but, I actually don't see a problem anyway.

Second, I only have a few years until my late 40s...
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Talon378 wrote:
I am some hapless rube that is too dumb to know the difference
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Dallas Honeycutt
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Montag451 wrote:
Talon378 wrote:
Montag451 wrote:
Thazar wrote:
While I am new to this web site I will say I really do not see what is bad about these. I come from the RPG background of the game so I do not have the experience of most of the posters at this web site in board games. But these cards have the same basic pictures that are in the adventure path and for the iconics in the RPG. I have played the demo at a store and everyone pretty much liked it.

I must be missing the point as they look perfectly good to me and everyone could read the cards fine and enjoyed the demo. The impression I get from the OP is kind of like when people in art appreciation class pick apart a painting, poem, or movie or something. Not trying to troll or anything as I understand people like that kind of activity... I just do not get how these are bad at all.

It's okay, I don't think you have enough exposure to the board and card game industry to get what the issue is. When you've seen how good things can look in other games, you're not as willing to accept bare minimum. But by the same token, if you've never seen gold or silver, then copper and tin might look pretty cool to you.

edit: Hope that didn't sound patronizing or anything, just that you said you come from an RPg background and are new to the site. If you look at a lot of other board and card games, the difference becomes much more apparent.


Wow, could you possibly be any more pompous than this? Are you seriously trying to tell this person that they don't see a problem because they don't know any better? And I suppose that because I don;t see a problem that I am some hapless rube that is too dumb to know the difference? I would really like to operate under the impression that you just made a slip of the tongue and didn't realize just how bad this post sounded, but I am afraid I am wrong about that as well.
I did add an edit, you read that right? (you quoted it).

Yeah, the initial post read poorly, wasn't meant to.

Point is, it's not about opinion but perspective. He admitted he comes from an RPG background, as well as being new to the site. I assume that when he says, "I just do not get how these are bad at all." it's because he has not played/seen many games with a really good graphic design. He's perfectly allowed to like it all he wants, I was trying (poorly) to highlight why he didn't understand; he doesn't have our perspective. If he were to look around at other games, he might understand (even if not agree with) our complaint.


Actually no, when I hit quote, the edit was not there. Regardless, your post is extremely pompous and I stand behind what I said fully. Just because someone else comes on and disagrees with you does not give you the right to assume that the person does not have the ability to know what they like, and unfortunately that is exactly the insinuation that you made.
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