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Subject: GMT pricing structure rss

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Jon Dieringer
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I am a little confused by their pricing structure. I am going to preface this with saying that I don;t necessarily feel they are overpriced considering that they are a small publisher, but I just want to know why the prices vary so much. Let's take a look at two recently published games and one on the p500 list:

Quote:
Here I Stand ($79 retail) You get:
Four full-color counter sheets
One 22" x 34" full-color mapsheet
110 Strategy cards
Ten 6-sided dice
32-page Rulebook
24-page Campaign Manual
Six 8.5" x 5.5" Power Cards
Two Player Aid Cards (two-sided)


Quote:
Napoleonic Wars ($60 retail) You get:
Four full-color counter sheets
One 22"x34" full-color mapsheet
110 Strategy cards
Six 10-sided dice
16-page Rulebook
23-page Campaign Manual
2 Player Aid cards


Already I am starting to wonder why Here I Stand is costing me $19. The only differences are the 6 small power cards and the color player aid sheet (not B&W like in nap wars) The rulebooks are also comperable size now with the revisions in both (I think nappy wars is 36 and Here I stand was published with 44).

This is what really makes me wonder though:

Quote:
Commands and Colors: Ancients ($65 retail)
Five full-color sheets of unit labels
345 wooden blocks
One 22"x34" full-color deluxe mapboard
3 sheets of Terrain Tile Overlays (double-sided)
60 Command Cards
7 Battle dice
28-page Rule and Battle book (FULL COLOR)
2 full color Player Aid cards


Why on earth are the CDG's so much when you get all these blocks with C&C:A. Also, why is C&C:A so much less expensive than Europe Engulfed? The only thing I can think of is that making counters is very expensive, which inflates the cost of all above but C&C:A. C&C:A also has the deluxe board that the CDGs above do not.

Again, I am not complaining about their overall prices, I am just wondering why the variations. I actually own all the above but EE and hope to acquire that tomorrow.
 
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Phil Shepherd
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I'm curious too. I know absolutely nothing about the costs of production, the profit margins for small publishers, etc, but I'd sure like to see mounted map boards for some of these games. I suppose I could make my own, but I tend to think mounted game boards for C&C:A would sell.
 
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Kevin Nesbitt
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CDG's are popular, therefore the price is higher. [Insert some other corporate-sounding excuse here if you want it to sound more official].
 
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Harald Torvatn
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Napoeleonic wars is two and a half year old, and may not have had its price increased since then. If reprinted it may be cheaper because the artwork has now already been paid for.

As for C&C, I guess the print run is a bit bigger. Also I think cardboard counters is more expensive than most geeks beleive, and that wooden blocks is not all that expensive.

Harald
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Allen Jones
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Standard pre-GMT discussion disclaimer: I have lots of GMT games, I love them, and will continue to buy their games as long as they keep making games that interest me.

Now, I guess they (GMT) dont just base the retail price on a standard markup over production costs. They will factor in development time, and probably to some degree an amount that they think the market will tolerate.

Also, perhaps they have taken a lower margin on C&C:Ancients because of the obvious potential for expansions, where they will make a little extra.

Allen
 
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Dale Stephenson
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chemist wrote:
I am a little confused by their pricing structure. I am going to preface this with saying that I don;t necessarily feel they are overpriced considering that they are a small publisher, but I just want to know why the prices vary so much. Let's take a look at two recently published games and one on the p500 list:

Quote:
Here I Stand ($79 retail) You get:
Four full-color counter sheets
One 22" x 34" full-color mapsheet
110 Strategy cards
Ten 6-sided dice
32-page Rulebook
24-page Campaign Manual
Six 8.5" x 5.5" Power Cards
Two Player Aid Cards (two-sided)


Quote:
Napoleonic Wars ($60 retail) You get:
Four full-color counter sheets
One 22"x34" full-color mapsheet
110 Strategy cards
Six 10-sided dice
16-page Rulebook
23-page Campaign Manual
2 Player Aid cards


Already I am starting to wonder why Here I Stand is costing me $19. The only differences are the 6 small power cards and the color player aid sheet (not B&W like in nap wars) The rulebooks are also comperable size now with the revisions in both (I think nappy wars is 36 and Here I stand was published with 44).


One difference is that Napoleonic Wars is a reprint. That doesn't make any difference to the component cost, but I'd guess it would affect the pre-production costs.

Still, Combat Commander is the same $79 retail, but also looks to have more components (I think) than HIS.

This is what really makes me wonder though:

Quote:
Quote:
Commands and Colors: Ancients ($65 retail)
Five full-color sheets of unit labels
345 wooden blocks
One 22"x34" full-color deluxe mapboard
3 sheets of Terrain Tile Overlays (double-sided)
60 Command Cards
7 Battle dice
28-page Rule and Battle book (FULL COLOR)
2 full color Player Aid cards


Why on earth are the CDG's so much when you get all these blocks with C&C:A. Also, why is C&C:A so much less expensive than Europe Engulfed? The only thing I can think of is that making counters is very expensive, which inflates the cost of all above but C&C:A. C&C:A also has the deluxe board that the CDGs above do not.

Again, I am not complaining about their overall prices, I am just wondering why the variations. I actually own all the above but EE and hope to acquire that tomorrow.


IIRC, C&Ç:A started at a higher price, but was reduced in an effort to get more orders. Again IIRC, they were able to get a good deal on blocks, which made it possible to reduce the price. C&C:A did require a lot more preorders than normal--if that went into a larger print run, economies of scale would reduce the price. If it went into the same small run, then the increased pre-orders went into what is likely to be a less profitable game.
 
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robin goblin
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As has been said, apparently wooden blocks are quite inexpensive if ordered in large numbers, as was the case for C&C. In terms of HIS vs TNW. Some of the costs would be in the 6 power cards, the religious struggle card, and the longer books (the rulebook and scenario book are somewhat longer), but I would expect a major part of the difference is that the art and graphics work and printing preparation has all already been done for the counters, map, cards for TNW, the cost of which would already have been accounted for in the first edition. Given the reasonably small print runs, I would certainly think that art costs would be a substantial part of the price.

Then add in the things going on behind the scenes (we don't know what their royalty agreement is with each of the designers for example)...Also I believe that GMT was able to negotiate better printing costs for some of the reprints/new editions that are coming out, which means the per unit printing cost may well be lower for TNW.

Robin
 
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Tony Nardo
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Harald wrote:
Napoeleonic wars is two and a half year old, and may not have had its price increased since then. If reprinted it may be cheaper because the artwork has now already been paid for.

Good point. Barring some wild errata, a reprint will be far cheaper in terms of artwork. There are also other costs associated with development that won't need to be incurred for a reprint.
Quote:
As for C&C, I guess the print run is a bit bigger. Also I think cardboard counters is more expensive than most geeks beleive, and that wooden blocks is not all that expensive.

I *think* this is true, but I can't swear to it. Everything in the GMT forum prior to 6/2004 (i.e., the archived GMT discussion prior to that date) has been deleted on ConsimWorld, so I can't check there anymore.
 
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