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Commands & Colors: Ancients» Forums » Rules

Subject: Movement of Units vs Leaders rss

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Gordon Gray
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After a couple of games, I am seeking clarification (or correction) on a few points related to movement (normal), retreat movement, and evade movement.

1. On p. 5, the fifth bullet point under movement states that units cannot move onto or through a hex occupied by a unit or leader (including friendly). Am I correct in interpreting this to mean that while a leader can move to attach himself to a unit ... a unit cannot move into a hex with a friendly leader (allowing that leader to attach himself to the unit)? It seems clear, but I am remember that in Battle Cry it worked both ways ...

2. On p. 6, the Leader Movement rules indicate that a leader may not move again with a unit he has just joined (attached himself to). Since the rules here also state that when a leader is attached to a unit, he must move with that unit, I concluded that the unit could not move (even if ordered). If it moved, it would evidently have to leave behind the attached leader ... a rule violation. Is this correct?

3. In retreating, a unit that has no attached leader can retreat into a hex with a friendly leader. The leader then attaches to the unit (no option to not attach is presented here) and the unit "may ignore any additional retreat movement" (p. 10). Does the "may" indicate that the unit can choose to continue its retreat? If so, would the attached leader move with the unit?

4. Does a leader alone (enemy) block retreat? The term used on p. 10 is "unit" ... but there may be a few instances in the rules where unit refers to both units and leaders. (I know this would rarely come up ...probably not a good idea to have your leaders used in this way.)

5. Can a leader Evade through a hex containing an enemy leader (alone)? All of the rules dealing with Leader Evade (p. 12) refer only to units. In context, it seems obvious that a leader cannot end his Evade on a hex that contains an enemy leader or unit, though only unit is mentioned (second bullet). I am not so sure about passing through an enemy leader (alone) in Evade (with no impact on either leader).

Thanks for any help. Most of the above are minor issues and/or unlikely to come up very often ... the game rules are very clear in almost all aspects.
 
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Wilhelm Fitzpatrick
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Re #2: I don't have my rulebook handy, but doesn't that rule go on to say that "the unit to which the leader attaches may not move *unless it itself is ordered* ??

I know I have done that in a game (use one order to move a leader to a unit, then issue another order to move the unit). I'll have to review and see if that was legal
 
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Richard Borg
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Q. On p. 5, the fifth bullet point under movement states that units cannot move onto or through a hex occupied by a unit or leader (including friendly).
A. Answers
- A leader when attached to a unit may not be moved through.
- A leader when alone in a hex may not be moved through. If a leader is alone in a hex a unit must stop in the hex with the leader, the unit may not move through the hex.

Perhaps we need to rewrite the rule in the fifth bullet to make it a little clearer… thanks!

Two units may not occupy the same hex.
When moving a unit you may not move onto or through a hex occupied by an enemy unit or lone enemy leader or a friendly unit. A unit may move onto a hex with a friendly leader when he is alone in the hex.

Q. On p. 6, the Leader Movement rules indicate that a leader may not move again with a unit he has just joined (attached himself to). Since the rules here also state that when a leader is attached to a unit, he must move with that unit, I concluded that the unit could not move (even if ordered). If it moved, it would evidently have to leave behind the attached leader ... a rule violation. Is this correct?
A. You are Correct!
Not sure in what situation you would order your unit and leader to do this?

Q. Part 1 - In retreating, a unit that has no attached leader can retreat into a hex with a friendly leader. The leader then attaches to the unit (no option to not attach is presented here) and the unit "may ignore any additional retreat movement" (p. 10).
A. First - The Leader must be alone in the hex for a unit to retreat onto the hex. If this is the case, when the unit moves onto the hex the leader must attach to the unit.

Q. Part 2 - Does the "may" indicate that the unit can choose to continue its retreat? If so, would the attached leader move with the unit?
A. "may" was a poor choice of words… if your unit retreats onto a hex with a leader any additional retreat movement is stopped. We looked at it is a benefit.

Q. Does a leader alone (enemy) block a retreat?
A. Yes
When moving a unit you may not move onto or through a hex occupied by an enemy unit or lone enemy leader.

Q. Can a leader Evade through a hex containing an enemy leader (alone)?
A. No
But a leader may escape though a hex with a lone enemy leader. An enemy leader does not roll any dice.

Richard Borg
 
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Gordon Gray
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Thanks for the help. I had high expectations for this game and those expectations have been exceeded. Great fun!
 
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Kevin Duke
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Wow, I would not have thought about a leader alone in a hex blocking the retreat path of an enemy unit-- which is what this appears to be saying.

Also, just to clarify and amplify the point Wilhelm made with something I have seen from RB elsehwere--

If you have a unit with a leader attached, you CAN have both of them move to different places-- but it requires 2 orders-- one for the unit to move someplace and a separate one for the leader to move without the unit.

I'm sure having fun with it !
 
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Gordon Gray
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Kevin,

Your clarification -- 2 orders to move a unit and attached leader separately -- is something that is easy to miss. Players would like to get two moves with one order!

I believe that Wilhelm was suggesting that you can move a leader to a unit, attach the leader, and then move the unit w/ the newly attached leader -- so long as both leader and unit have received separate orders. Even though the rules wording could be a bit more clear, Richard has confirmed that this "double movement" is not legal.
 
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Kevin Duke
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Good point--if legal, you could move a leader 3 hexes, join a light cav unit and move 4 more hexes.
 
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Wilhelm Fitzpatrick
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Gordon is correct. I was thinking you could move a leader (on order) to a unit, attach, and move that unit (second order). Clearly, the existing rules along with Richard's clarification rules that out. I was wrong.
 
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