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Vampire: Prince of the City» Forums » General

Subject: Location Influence Values - City Hall and Cathedral rss

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Christopher O
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This is a game-design question for Mike Nudd - I noticed he seems to visit this forum fairly frequently - but perhaps anyone who's played this game a few times might also be able to answer.

Most of the city influence values for the various locations seem to make sense thematically; that is, if you'd expect a certain location to hold a certain amount of sway over a city's social, financial or political life, it has a certain value: 1s for areas which are out of the limelight, 2s for medium weight areas, and 3s for areas which obviously would have an major effect on the Kindred in a city.

The only two zones that don't seem to make as much sense in this regard are the City Hall and Cathedral - 3 influence and 4 influence respectively. To a lesser extent, the Mosque and the Synagogue seem overly influential as well at influence 3.

I know this is the World of Darkness and all, but I wouldn't think that a church (or organization of churches - whatever the "Cathedral" zone represents) would hold much influence in the vampire community. A 2 or a 3 I could understand, but to have the single highest city influence value on the board be the Cathedral (as well as having a relatively powerful Activation card power) seems a little out of place. The only thing I can think of is that if you controlled these religious locations, you'd have control over faith-based vampire hunter teams, which, admittedly would be a good thing.

If this was, say, a similar Vampire-themed game set in the 16-19th centuries, for example, I could definitely see the Church being that powerful, but in a Modern (20-21st century) setting, it doesn't seem quite as fitting.

On the other side of the coin, the City Hall zone, even with 3 city influence, seems thematically underpowered. If you controlled the mayor's office and the city council, even if they are "only" mortals/kine, you'd have a tremendous amount of influence in the city. Not only this, but there isn't even a City Hall zone Activation card.

I haven't played the game yet, so perhaps there's a game balancing effect which I'm not yet aware. The only thing I can think of is that since there are only three locations in the Religious domain, their respective point values had to be bumped up to make ownership of the domain equal in weight to the other domains.

For comparison, the total influence values of each of the domains are as follows:

Religious: 10
Government: 10
Business: 9
Arts and Entertainment: 9
Research: 7
Industry: 6
Tranportation: 8
Community: 7

My guess is that it's a game-balance design choice - the domains have to be relatively equal in value and there are only so many Activation cards you can include in a 100-card deck (20) but I'm curious what the designer and other players have to say about this.

Thanks for reading.
 
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Gael
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Hi,

Quote:
My guess is that it's a game-balance design choice


Yes, I think so to. I have played a few times now and it seem balance.
Since all players should be informed of that at the beginning of the game; (10 victory point (+3 for the domain too) by controlling either the Religious/Government). So you can go for it in the first few turn but you'll be far ahead and the others players won't help you and even worst; since the game is far from over watch your back.
It's just one interpretation and still Kozure you make a good point here :
Quote:

If this was, say, a similar Vampire-themed game set in the 16-19th centuries, for example, I could definitely see the Church being that powerful, but in a Modern (20-21st century) setting, it doesn't seem quite as fitting.

I'll be interested reading from a game designer too.

Ps: I still love this game; finally I had just won my first game with the Ventrue
 
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Eddie the Cranky Gamer
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I thought the influence was not over the vampire community so much as it was over the world of humans. Aside from their inate powers, the influence a Kindred holds over the outside world is what establishes their status in the Masquerade. As such, a primogen with religious influence has tremendous power over the citizens of the city, and the influence score is appropriate.

And in a city rife with vampires, the clergy would likely hold considerable sway.

Or something like that.

 
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Mike Nudd
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apotheos wrote:
I thought the influence was not over the vampire community so much as it was over the world of humans.


This is correct. Influence is expended to control mortal areas of interest.

apotheos wrote:
the influence a Kindred holds over the outside world is what establishes their status in the Masquerade.


Again correct. The prestige gained for controlling areas of mortal influence is as viewed from the perspective of the local Kindred community.[/q]

apotheos wrote:
As such, a primogen with religious influence has tremendous power over the citizens of the city, and the influence score is appropriate.

And in a city rife with vampires, the clergy would likely hold considerable sway.

Or something like that.


Indeed, something like that.
 
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