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Subject: Clarifications rss

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Marc Hartstein
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We've found a few situations the rules don't handle nicely. Here's how we deal with them:

0. We agree with all the clarifications given by drasher25 at http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/91389

1. In a large group, we revert to the simpler Color Match rule where it only affects the next duel. This is because it's very boring in an 8-player game to spend 5 minutes not getting to play while people around the table keep getting matches on color.

2. If players fail to notice that they are in a duel, other players are free to continue play. The players are still in a duel for as long as they have matching cards face-up on top of their stacks. If either of them covers their card with another, the duel is simply "missed" with no penalty to either. This rule can be restated as, "Whatever happens, happens."

3. As a result of missed duels, an All-Flip, or a Color Match, it is possible for there to be multiple simultaneous duels. When the totem is correctly grabbed, anybody who was supposed to be in a duel (they matched anybody on the table) and isn't the totem holder loses their duel. They must take their own face-up stack. The winner then distributes his cards as normal among the people who had matched him, and chooses one of them to be the next starting player.

Example:

Players A, B, C, D, E, and F. Players A and B both have blue cards on top of their stacks. Players C, D, and E all have green. Player F plays a Color Match, covering her prior card. Player C grabs the totem. Players A and B must pick up their own face-up stacks and add them to their draw piles. Player C gets to divide his face-up stack and any cards under the totem among Players D and E, then choose which of Players D or E will start the next round.

The rationale for this house rule is that without it, players A and B would still be in a duel when player C returns the totem. There's no fair way for them to race to grab it in this situation.

4. The "player who knocked over the totem" is the one who touched the totem last before it fell over. This is relevant when two people grab for the totem in such a way that it falls over. If it cannot be reasonably determined who is responsible (both touched it), the players responsible evenly divide all the cards to be taken. They then agree on who should go first (typically the one who took the odd card, or the one who has more cards in their draw pile).
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Bryan Johnson
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Most of those rules seem to make sense, and we already use alot of the variations and stuff. An updated rules to the game should be printed.
 
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Stephan Brissaud
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MarcMagus wrote:
3. As a result of missed duels, an All-Flip, or a Color Match, it is possible for there to be multiple simultaneous duels. When the totem is correctly grabbed, anybody who was supposed to be in a duel (they matched anybody on the table) and isn't the totem holder loses their duel. They must take their own face-up stack. The winner then distributes his cards as normal among the people who had matched him, and chooses one of them to be the next starting player.


Almost... The exact way to deal with this situation is that the winner take ALL the cards (his stack + the 2 stacks from the 2 loosers) and divide them anyway he wants. He can give 1 card to one of the loosers and all the rest to the other one.

Stephan @ ASMODEE
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Marc Hartstein
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Huh, really? I'm going to go back and look at the rules on the website now, and the printed ones if I can find my copy (I don't carry it around; I may have lost it). That's definitely not how I read it, but it's interesting. We'll have to try it that way.

Since I have your attention, Stephan, what is the official solution to the complex situation I describe in which there are two duels happening simultaneously? Is my "house rule" the correct way to handle the situation?
 
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Marc Hartstein
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SentientGolem wrote:
Almost... The exact way to deal with this situation is that the winner take ALL the cards (his stack + the 2 stacks from the 2 loosers) and divide them anyway he wants. He can give 1 card to one of the loosers and all the rest to the other one.


I just checked the website at http://vuarchex.club.fr/english/rules/reglesgb1.htm and it says this:

The Rules wrote:
If three or more players have the same card : the losers of the round divide the winner’s cards amongst them OR the winner can decide how to distribute his cards (and the cards from The Pot). For example, he could give all of his cards to his gaming nemesis and none to his friends; just remember, the winner can only give his cards to losers of the duel).


Which is correct?

The Rules wrote:
If two duels are possible at the same time : the player who grabs the totem first is the winner and the second duel is no longer possible.


Also, I see I'm wrong about the two duels at the same time thing, although I think I might like my way better. (It seems cleaner to me. I like the idea of playing where the only thing you have to remember is who just played a card. You only need this for purposes of knowing whether a Fast Grab is active. This is why we prefer the Color Match to be active until covered when reasonable as well.)
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Stephan Brissaud
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MarcMagus wrote:
SentientGolem wrote:
Almost... The exact way to deal with this situation is that the winner take ALL the cards (his stack + the 2 stacks from the 2 loosers) and divide them anyway he wants. He can give 1 card to one of the loosers and all the rest to the other one.


I just checked the website at http://vuarchex.club.fr/english/rules/reglesgb1.htm and it says this:

The Rules wrote:
If three or more players have the same card : the losers of the round divide the winner’s cards amongst them OR the winner can decide how to distribute his cards (and the cards from The Pot). For example, he could give all of his cards to his gaming nemesis and none to his friends; just remember, the winner can only give his cards to losers of the duel).


Which is correct?


Well, it's the same isn't it? I'm sorry for my broken english, but what I meant is what is on the official website.

MarcMagus wrote:
The Rules wrote:
If two duels are possible at the same time : the player who grabs the totem first is the winner and the second duel is no longer possible.


Also, I see I'm wrong about the two duels at the same time thing, although I think I might like my way better. (It seems cleaner to me. I like the idea of playing where the only thing you have to remember is who just played a card. You only need this for purposes of knowing whether a Fast Grab is active. This is why we prefer the Color Match to be active until covered when reasonable as well.)


I do like the Color Match active until covered too. This is the way I play JS.
 
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Marc Hartstein
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SentientGolem wrote:
Well, it's the same isn't it? I'm sorry for my broken english, but what I meant is what is on the official website.


They're a little different. Your version has all the cards of the winner and the losers divided among the losers. The website has the losers receiving, at a minimum, their own piles, and the winner dividing the cards in his pile and the pot among them.
 
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Mikel Matthews
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For the Color Match being active till covered, how do you handle it when there are 2 different duels. One'll take place and the other two players will have an active duel. We've been playing that their duel can't take place until the next card is flipped down but since they're both primed to grab, it can be a bit boring.
 
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Marc Hartstein
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godfatherbrak wrote:
...how do you handle it when there are 2 different duels.


If I'm understanding your question, that situation can occur regardless of how you play Color Match, as All-Flip can cause it. In fact, we discussed it above. I'd treat simultaneous duels created by a Color Match the same way you do with All-Flip. Personally, I still prefer my alternate "multipler losers, one winner who can only give cards to 'direct losers'" house rule, but clearly you should be consistent with one rule regardless of what causes the 2 (or more) different duels.

There is one other problem with the Color Match until covered version. If two players have cards which match in symbol but not in color and notice this, they'll suddenly become in a duel as soon as the player with the Color Match on the table covers it with another card. This creates that weird hovering primed to grab thing that Mikel describes. Sometimes that tension can be neat, but usually it's slightly annoying. I haven't come up with a good solution to that problem yet.
 
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Mikel Matthews
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We found a way to do the color match with a large group of people.

Someone, while we were explaining the rules, said something about the active card and that solved our problem. For the color match, after the first duel is one, anyone else who was eligible for a duel has theirs duel cancelled until a card of the same color is flipped while the Color Match is active.
 
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Ender Wiggins
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MarcMagus wrote:
1. In a large group, we revert to the simpler Color Match rule where it only affects the next duel. This is because it's very boring in an 8-player game to spend 5 minutes not getting to play while people around the table keep getting matches on color.

The Jungle Speed: Silver edition states that the effects of the colour match card end:

"as soon as one of three events occur: the totem falls over, a duel starts, or another special card is revealed."
 
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