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Subject: Ships rss

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Tom Wakeford
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Is it possible to disband ships?
 
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MK
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Yes. During the Ship Maintenance phase, which comes before Ship Building, you are required to either pay 1 from levy or treasury to keep up each existing ship. If you don't, the ship is disbanded and goes back to your supply. This is actually an important tactic, because sometimes what you want to do is ferry a lot of your tokens from one side of the sea to another, but moving the ship back and forth isn't going to do it fast enough. So each turn you build a new ship on one side, ferry tokens over, and next turn let that ship disband so you can rebuild it back on the other side.
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Philip Thomas
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It is also an important tactic because it costs 1 to maintain a ship and 2 to build it, and sometimes you want to be spending money, so you disband the ship and rebuild it- sometimes even in the same place!
 
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Tom Wakeford
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nice one, thanks folks
 
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Steve Bachman
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Philip Thomas wrote:
It is also an important tactic because it costs 1 to maintain a ship and 2 to build it, and sometimes you want to be spending money, so you disband the ship and rebuild it- sometimes even in the same place!


IIRC, the rules stipulate that you can not rebuild a ship in the same area as one was disbanded. Maybe it is just in the AdvCiv rules, but I thought this was the case.
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Philip Thomas
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Will check the basic Civ rules when I get home. I probably missed it...we have certainly been playing that way.

Of course, you can (most times) build in the adjacent region anyway, so its not that crucial.
 
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ɹǝsɐɹɟ
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Ward wrote:
Philip Thomas wrote:
It is also an important tactic because it costs 1 to maintain a ship and 2 to build it, and sometimes you want to be spending money, so you disband the ship and rebuild it- sometimes even in the same place!


IIRC, the rules stipulate that you can not rebuild a ship in the same area as one was disbanded. Maybe it is just in the AdvCiv rules, but I thought this was the case.


You remember correctly. This is from the Avalon Hill Civilization rules
9.4 A player may remove a ship from the board by not paying maintenance in order to build it in another area (never in the same area).
So long as you have two areas in which to build ships though, it can be a very useful way of controlling your spending. I have disbanded and rebuilt my entire navy quite a few times - the Peace Loving Federation of Babylon's Navy deserved to have nice new ships meeple
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Philip Thomas
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Oh yeah, but we got round that easily.
I have two ships, Ship A in Province A and Ship B in Province B
I disband them. The rules say Ship A can't be rebuilt in Province A and Ship B can't be rebuilt in Province B. So (I think you can see this coming), I build Ship B in Province A and Ship B in Province A!
 
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Brian Newman
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Philip Thomas wrote:
Oh yeah, but we got round that easily.
I have two ships, Ship A in Province A and Ship B in Province B
I disband them. The rules say Ship A can't be rebuilt in Province A and Ship B can't be rebuilt in Province B. So (I think you can see this coming), I build Ship B in Province A and Ship B in Province A!


That would definitely be considered against the spirit of the rules and the spirit of the game in my group. Since the ships aren't labeled and aren't different in capabilities, you are essentially rebuilding the very same ship in the very same area, which is clearly against the rules.
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Michael
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Karlsen wrote:
Ward wrote:
IIRC, the rules stipulate that you can not rebuild a ship in the same area as one was disbanded. Maybe it is just in the AdvCiv rules, but I thought this was the case.


You remember correctly. This is from the Avalon Hill Civilization rules
9.4 A player may remove a ship from the board by not paying maintenance in order to build it in another area (never in the same area).


Hmm - the German rules of the Gibbon's edition don't touch this case. Does anybody know, how this was handeled in the very first version from Hartland Trefoil?

Regards,
Michael
 
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Ben Foy
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Blackberry wrote:
Philip Thomas wrote:
Oh yeah, but we got round that easily.
I have two ships, Ship A in Province A and Ship B in Province B
I disband them. The rules say Ship A can't be rebuilt in Province A and Ship B can't be rebuilt in Province B. So (I think you can see this coming), I build Ship B in Province A and Ship B in Province A!


That would definitely be considered against the spirit of the rules and the spirit of the game in my group. Since the ships aren't labeled and aren't different in capabilities, you are essentially rebuilding the very same ship in the very same area, which is clearly against the rules.


Please! So he moves the ships enmasse from Providence A to B, then rebuilds in A. You would have to try really hard to get into a situation where this rule had an affect on a game. People tend to ignore this rule since its not worth the effort to keep track of it. Its not like there is a lack of sea spaces. Even civilizations that can stay away from the Med have convenient lakes to build fleets on.
 
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Mr Cricket
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Quote:
Hmm - the German rules of the Gibbon's edition don't touch this case. Does anybody know, how this was handeled in the very first version from Hartland Trefoil?


The rules of the Hartland Trefoil version don't mention this specific case. In fact they state that "Ships may be built in any Coastal Zone" so the restriction doesn't seem to be there.
 
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Philip Thomas
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Only now got round to checking my (Gibsons Games) copy of the rules. No restriction is mentioned on ship building- Ships may be built in any coastal zone...

I resent the implication that I have been cheating. Everyone playing the game knew our ship-building rules and played by them. At worst we were playing a variant game.
 
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ɹǝsɐɹɟ
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Philip Thomas wrote:
Only now got round to checking my (Gibsons Games) copy of the rules. No restriction is mentioned on ship building- Ships may be built in any coastal zone...

I resent the implication that I have been cheating. Everyone playing the game knew our ship-building rules and played by them. At worst we were playing a variant game.

Interesting that that was different in the Gibsons edition.

As I may have hinted at above, we did precisely the same thing of rebuilding ships under the letter of the rules as you did under the Avalon Hill rules. It was put out by a wargame company, if they didn't want you rebuilding any ship in an area that you had just disbanded a ship the rule could have been simply reworded. The longevity of this game implies that it was well playtested.
 
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Edwin David Bliss
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I think that the point of the ( AH ) rule here, is to disallow something that would have been unlikely to Historically occur !!

[ The leaders of an empire may choose to relocate their boat building facilities to another area / province , but they would be unlikely to relocate it to another part of the same area / province. ]

If anyone disagrees the rule and their fellow players do too, then by all means ignore it. It's logic is not 100% "accurate" after all.

[ However, could a PC game cope with the logic used by this "cheat" ? I think it could not and would disallow it. Hence it is a "cheat" ( of sorts anyway ). ]

NB : The above only applies to the AH game ( and any other with the same ruling )!!!
 
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Martin DeOlden
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That is actually one of those rules that we have been playing wrong for years. My groups have always disbanded ships and then just rebuilt them in the same exact area.
I will have to remember this and let everyone know the next time we play that this is not allowed.
 
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Edwin David Bliss
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tawnos76 wrote:
That is actually one of those rules that we have been playing wrong for years. My groups have always disbanded ships and then just rebuilt them in the same exact area.
I will have to remember this and let everyone know the next time we play that this is not allowed.

Now this is the right attitude towards the ( AH ) rule.

[ We can all make mistakes. It's how we deal with it that's important. ]
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Edwin David Bliss
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Karlsen wrote:
It was put out by a wargame company, if they didn't want you rebuilding any ship in an area that you had just disbanded a ship the rule could have been simply reworded. The longevity of this game implies that it was well playtested.

I am having a little trouble following the implied logic here ( sorry )!

Is this in favour of the full ( AH ) ruling or against it ?
 
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ɹǝsɐɹɟ
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DEB8 wrote:
Karlsen wrote:
It was put out by a wargame company, if they didn't want you rebuilding any ship in an area that you had just disbanded a ship the rule could have been simply reworded. The longevity of this game implies that it was well playtested.

I am having a little trouble following the implied logic here ( sorry )!

Is this in favour of the full ( AH ) ruling or against it ?


I play by this rule (and I suppose by implication am in favour of it):

9.4 A player may remove a ship from the board by not paying maintenance in order to build it in another area (never in the same area).

(since my quoted reply above was almost 8 years ago, I am not 100% sure what I was implying then).
 
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Edwin David Bliss
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Fair enough.

Thanks.
 
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