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Struggle of Empires» Forums » Rules

Subject: Bidding for Alliances with more money than you have rss

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Josh Wheeler
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How do people play this?

Do you have to take unrest to get money when you bid more than you have?
Or do you just have to take unrest to get money to pay after you win, having bid more than you currently have?
 
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Philip Thomas
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You only take unrest when you make the payment: i.e. if you win the bid. Well that is the way most Auction games work...
 
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Josh Wheeler
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Once again, Phillip, you come to my rescue. As I thought about that last night, that made a lot more sense to do it that way.
 
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Hayden Scott
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I don't know the answer, so far as the rules are concerned, but the answer given above doesn't make sense to me.

I would have thought that you can only bid in an auction if you have the necessary money. Otherwise, a person without money could bid just so as to push up the ultimate price.

If you can only bid with money that you have, then you would have to take the unrest to get that money. Accordingly, you would take the unrest whether you won the bid or not.

Of course the rules could say otherwise.
 
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Philip Thomas
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Well, all other Auction games I know you can bid as much as you like (some games have a rule that you can't bid more than you can raise, but the point remains). In Monopoly, a player without money can bid on the basis he will mortgage stuff, but he doesn't actually do the mortgaging unless his bid wins. In Princes of Florence, you can bid on the basis of raising money by losing PPs, but you don't lose them unlees your bid wins.

I mean, what is the unrest being caused by? Nothing! Only if he wins does he need the money...
 
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Anthony Simons
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Hayden wrote:
I would have thought that you can only bid in an auction if you have the necessary money. Otherwise, a person without money could bid just so as to push up the ultimate price.


Somebody doing this would still run the risk of gaining unrest. What if the other player just doesn't see it as worth pursuing, or subsequently decides it's better to see the opponent take unrest for his bid?

In most cases I would think watching an opponent take unrest is worth dropping out of the bidding for; especially if I am already out of contention regarding turn order and which alliance I am fighting for.

Anyway, this discussion is pointless because you can only take unrest when you pay for something; so nobody can have unrest in this scenario without winning the auction first.
 
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Richard Young
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Strictly speaking, unrest only comes into play as the money is taken from the bank...presumably to pay for an auction just won in the case of the immediate question. There are many ways to run auctions, and it happens in SoE that the conjunction of the rules for unrest and auctions combine to permit abuses that have often been the topic of discussion here and elsewhere. Tinkering with both has been suggested but nothing official has emerged to my knowledge, but with amiable groups there really shouldn't be too much of a problem with the rules as they stand.

Our group has made provision for a house rule that specifies any loans from the bank have to be taken before the bidding starts and you play with what you have until the bidding is completed. This can prevent someone who is out of contention running amuck with wild abandon either to hose the current leader or to help a buddy. The corollary house rule that prevents someone from taking more unrest than they can theoretically buy back (based on tiles available) and remain under 20, works in conjunction with this. Getting "busted" for going too far in the unrest hole is based on a "challenge" mechanic that need not be detailed here unless there is interest in it.

These two "treatments" can be argued as being within the spirit of the rules if not the letter, and are only really necessary in groups where cut-throat gamesmanship prevails, or in tournament play (which is much the same thing come to think of it).
 
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