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Subject: op rules: McWeasely's first impression rss

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Dave J McWeasely
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Most pressing question: Where are the Nazgul?!?!?! I first assumed the vanilla nazgul were sub-commanders of the black captain, and this would account for the ephemeral, non-persistant leadership of the Shadow from turn to turn. Maybe leadership tokens got adopted because the shadow had to place more than 8 in a turn. Its all very mysterious...


Best suprise: The art for Gothmog gave me a chortle. The artist just punted on the issue of whether he was an orc, or a nazgul, or whatever, and went for the "aptly named Sir Not Appearing in this Film" look. Brilliant!

Most confusion: the taxonomy of leadership. Can someone draw me a heirarchy with the following entries: Companion, Character, Captain, Leader, Leadership Token, and Minion?

Obligatory attempt to wheedle additional information: What miniature is use for Gothmog? Does he borrow the Black Captain mini now that BC can use the Nazgul Chief mini?
 
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Dave J McWeasely
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Most Quixotic: The only way an army may move 2 spaces with the middle space adjacent to an enemy is if they defeat an enemy army and take ground as their second "move".
Theoden: lissen up men, free beer 'n' mutton at Ye Old Inn if we can march there tonight.
Men: meh
Theoden: ...and wenches aplenty...
Men: meh
Theoden: ...and ... er ... orcs?
Men: Huzzah! hut!hut!hut!hut!...
(men march over the horizon in the intended direction)

Other question: so what do eye results do in Rohan, far away from Mordor orcs?
 
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Dave J McWeasely
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Don't all tactics tokens automatically replenish between battles?

Quote:
A used Unit Maneuver token is considered "spent" and is left on the table, faceup. It will not be avialable to the player for another round of battle, until a Regroup token is used.
 
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Dave J McWeasely
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I hotly anticpate getting a look at all the unit statistics and manuver powers. The warg's "rearguard attack" power seems quite elegant. If they're all this pretty, and actually useful to boot, it should be quite a good game. This kinda reminds me of Warcraft III, where even the lowly orc grunt has a special power.

Also, the action tokens seem nice. Two half actions per turn seems about like a whole action, and its of the type of the player's choice, so its kinda like rolling an extra WoW per turn. This insulates from the extra instability of rolling a small number of dice so painfully apparent in vanilla War of the Ring.

Also, I notice the cagey wording on action tokens: you can only use them when you're able to pass. You're only able to pass if your opponent has strictly more dice than you do. Thus if the FP is behind in action dice by 2 or 1 die, the incremental improvement of gaining an additional 1 die is only ½ action per turn.

What's the deal with the action tokens having a charadcter side and an army/muster side? Did I miss that?
 
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Kristofer Bengtsson
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I'll try to answer your questions...

MrWeasely wrote:
Where are the Nazgul?!?!?!


Once you read the specific rules for the Gondor scenario you will learn more about these wraiths (and they are quite nasty).

MrWeasely wrote:
Best suprise: The art for Gothmog gave me a chortle. The artist just punted on the issue of whether he was an orc, or a nazgul, or whatever, and went for the "aptly named Sir Not Appearing in this Film" look. Brilliant!


I'll actually take some credit for this since my input to John Howe resulted in the final art work for Gothmog.

MrWeasely wrote:
Most confusion: the taxonomy of leadership. Can someone draw me a heirarchy with the following entries: Companion, Character, Captain, Leader, Leadership Token, and Minion?


It all depends on what Leadership rating the Character/Minion/Companins etc. has.

The basic leaders and the Shadow's leadership tokens are 1/+1.
(This means that if it is the commander in tha battle it adds 1 Leadership and if it is helping another commander it adds 1 (+1) to the total leadership. Example: If the Witch King (3/+0) commands the army and a single Shadow Leadership token (1/+1) helps it would result in 3+1=4 in total Leadership.

MrWeasely wrote:
Obligatory attempt to wheedle additional information: What miniature is use for Gothmog? Does he borrow the Black Captain mini now that BC can use the Nazgul Chief mini?


See if you find any mini from the original game (who is not mentioned in the new game) whose head gear resembles the image for Gothmog.

MrWeasely wrote:
What do eye results do in Rohan, far away from Mordor orcs?


There are actually Mordor orcs (coming from the eastern side of the river Entwash) aiding the forces of Saruman .

MrWeasely wrote:
Don't all tactics tokens automatically replenish between battles?


Yes, once a battle is over all tactics tokens are returned to the player's hand.

MrWeasely wrote:
What's the deal with the action tokens having a charadcter side and an army/muster side? Did I miss that?


Once during playtesting the action tokens only had two uses (hence one side per possible action. As it now have more uses the fact that the token is two sided is only decorative.



 
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Dave de Vil
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On Veldrin's site he specifically states that Gothmog is a "Black Numenorean", same as the Mouth of Sauron. I still think most people will prefer to imagine that old Spongebob Squarehead from the movies has somehow squeezed his tumorous fizzog under that mighty helm.
He also mentions somewhere that you can choose which Witchking figure to use, with each having different abilities, so hopefully there'll be a Gothmog piece (though he hasn't shown up on any of the photos).
The different ranks of leaders confused me also, but here's my take:
Characters: All NAMED individuals in the game
Commander: A chosen leader of any army whose leadership is the main one applied
Captain: Another named leader whose leadership MODIFIER only is applied
Companion: Presumably any former member of the Fellowship
I'm assuming that the plastic "Captain" bases are in fact used to distinguish the chosen commander of an army, otherwise what would they be for?
Reviewing this, it may be that the terms "Commander" and "Captain" are interchangeable, but hopefully the scenario rules will explain it rather more clearly.


Best suprise: The art for Gothmog gave me a chortle. The artist just punted on the issue of whether he was an orc, or a nazgul, or whatever, and went for the "aptly named Sir Not Appearing in this Film" look. Brilliant!

Most confusion: the taxonomy of leadership. Can someone draw me a heirarchy with the following entries: Companion, Character, Captain, Leader, Leadership Token, and Minion?

Obligatory attempt to wheedle additional information: What miniature is use for Gothmog? Does he borrow the Black Captain mini now that BC can use the Nazgul Chief mini?[/q]
 
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Kristofer Bengtsson
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Characters: All NAMED individuals in the game

YES

Commander: A chosen leader of any army whose leadership is the main one applied

CORRECT

Captain: Another named leader whose leadership MODIFIER only is applied

CORRECT


Companion: Presumably any former member of the Fellowship

CORRECT
 
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Dave de Vil
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Ah, Veldrin just beat me to it!

Looks like the old WK figure for Gothmog then. zombie

I think the option to choose a WK figure must refer to a new rule for the original WOTR game.

Am I right in assuming from the rules posted so far that victory for the FP in the Gondor scenarion depends soley on "holding out" until the clock runs down, or is there a "military" victory for the FP based on capturing Mordor territories?
 
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Kristofer Bengtsson
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Angry Martian wrote:
Looks like the old WK figure for Gothmog then.


Incorrect, look for another mini from the main game.

Angry Martian wrote:
Am I right in assuming from the rules posted so far that victory for the FP in the Gondor scenarion depends soley on "holding out" until the clock runs down, or is there a "military" victory for the FP based on capturing Mordor territories?


Incorrect, there are other ways for the FP to win than simply "holding out".


 
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Dave J McWeasely
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A. Martian wrote:
I'm assuming that the plastic "Captain" bases are in fact used to distinguish the chosen commander of an army, otherwise what would they be for?
Based on absence of facts I've made up this theorey: Theoden gets a blue base, Theodred gets a green base, Eomer gets a red base, and Eowyn gets a white base. The only problem with this idea is that it assumes the ability to cast a multitude of colors of plastic, which was out of reach for basic WotR.
 
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Dave J McWeasely
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Veldrin wrote:
Veldrin wrote:
See if you find any mini from the original game (who is not mentioned in the new game) whose head gear resembles the image for Gothmog.
Angry Martian wrote:
Looks like the old WK figure for Gothmog then.

Incorrect, look for another mini from the main game.
My, my, Pippin, how you've changed! We used to laugh at you, but no one is laughing now!
 
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Glenn Russell
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The mouth?
 
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MrWeasely wrote:
Veldrin wrote:
Veldrin wrote:
See if you find any mini from the original game (who is not mentioned in the new game) whose head gear resembles the image for Gothmog.
Angry Martian wrote:
Looks like the old WK figure for Gothmog then.

Incorrect, look for another mini from the main game.
My, my, Pippin, how you've changed! We used to laugh at you, but no one is laughing now!



Now I MUST play at least one game using Peregrin the Black Took...

Francesco
 
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Kristofer Bengtsson
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Francesco,

then you will have to discard one of the FP story events... otherways Peregrin will have difficult knowing whose side he is on.
 
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Dave J McWeasely
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Darth Pippin, there is still good in you, I have felt it.
 
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Francesco Nepitello
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Veldrin wrote:
Francesco,

then you will have to discard one of the FP story events... otherways Peregrin will have difficult knowing whose side he is on.


We need to add a ruling to the FAQ!

Francesco
 
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Dave de Vil
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If it's the Mouth, then gnashers can't be in the Gondor scenario at all. But then why delete one minion to add another with pretty much identical features?
Still, it means I can use the old Witch King for Sauron. Then, when the dying Dark Lord takes off his helmet at the end he can say
"Pippin, I am your Father".

Incidentally, I notice that the new Witch King has no crown. This is rather ironic, since the other 8 Nazgul will still have their crowns. I'm considering cutting them off, though, as they look like their heads have been tied up in a sack.

What's the thinking behind the new figure; is it to give a choice of Witch King abilities, or because new players have been liable to "forget" that he's also a Nazgul, and can move anywhere on the board?
 
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Alex Rockwell
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MrWeasely wrote:
Other question: so what do eye results do in Rohan, far away from Mordor orcs?


Recruit and move mordor orcs.
 
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Alex Rockwell
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MrWeasely wrote:
Most pressing question: Where are the Nazgul?!?!?!


They are there, but unlike the base game, they do something different from providing 1 leadership.
 
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Alex Rockwell
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MrWeasely wrote:

Also, the action tokens seem nice. Two half actions per turn seems about like a whole action, and its of the type of the player's choice, so its kinda like rolling an extra WoW per turn. This insulates from the extra instability of rolling a small number of dice so painfully apparent in vanilla War of the Ring.


Yes. There were problems where you had these tactical combats, and alternated moves, and then the FP ran out of dice and the shadow would do something silly like run all the way around you and take Helm's Deep or something. The half dice allow the FP to keep doing stuff.

Quote:

Also, I notice the cagey wording on action tokens: you can only use them when you're able to pass. You're only able to pass if your opponent has strictly more dice than you do. Thus if the FP is behind in action dice by 2 or 1 die, the incremental improvement of gaining an additional 1 die is only ½ action per turn.


Yup
 
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