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Subject: Few questions on some of the Tactics Cards rss

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Andy Davis
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Traitor Card - The rules say to choose any one troop card next to an unclaimed flag and place it into an empty slot on his own side.

My question is - when the rules say 'empty' do they mean an available slot or empty formation? So if 2 cards are already in front of a flag, I could add this card to make a 3 card formation? or does there have to be no cards in front of the flag?

Deserter

All of the problems we've had with deserter occur when a player gets rid of a tactics card such as mud...

I have a couple of scenarios for the deserter -

1) If a player has four cards and mud in front of a flag and I remove the mud, what happens to the four cards? Is the last card played just ignored (and only the first 3 count towards the formation)?

2) (Note - this assumes advanced rules) I have placed 2 - 3 - 4 of red, my opponent has placed 2 - 3 of blue and responds by placing the mud card on the formations for this flag. He then proceeds to place the 4 and the 5 of blue. After his turn, I play the deserter to remove the mud. Who wins the flag and why?

 
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Damon Asher
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Deserter can only be used on "Troop cards", not on tactics cards!
 
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Andy Davis
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Actually, that's not true - The exact wording on the card is:

DESERTER - Choose any troop or tactics card from the opponent’s side next to an unclaimed flag, and discard it face up on the opponent’s side.

You are probably thinking of traitor - which lets you take only a troop from the opponent.

The other card that would let you move/get rid of a tactics card is:

REDEPLOY - Choose any one troop or tactics card from your own side next to an unclaimed flag, and place it into any empty slot on your side or discard it face up on your side.

So in either case - what would happen with MUD?

 
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Damon Asher
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Ah, you're right. I think I would play that you can't remove Mud or Fog. Once these cards take effect you can't cleanly undo them, so I'll rationalize this by viewing these cards as "instant effect" cards. Once you play it, its effect is permanent on that column. You only leave them on the board to remind you where they were played. Just my interpretation, but it's the only one I can think of that works!
 
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Jean-François Lassonde
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With DESERTER, you can discard only units tactics cards such as a leader, the 8 of any color, or the Shield Bearers but not any "effect" cards.
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Brad Weage
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Traitor: We've always played that it can go in an empty slot in a column (one of the three) not just in an totally empty column.

Deserter: We always slide Fog or Mud partially under the flag so we never thought of them as being on one side or the other, so we never thought of being able to remove/move them. I just perused the rules and I think it is just unfortunate wording. I think that special area closer to the flag than your troops is really not meant to be considered as being on your side of the battle. Themeatically, that whole battlefield is muddy, not just your side - but that seems like a strange argument to present concerning a Knizia game.
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Andy Davis
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I guess after thinking about it, the answer you guys provided is really the only one that makes sense (I mean how would it make sense to "redeploy" fog.. pretty funny thinking about logically).

Thanks for the help
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Andrew Palm
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First, I am astonished that this question only comes up once in the forum when each of 6 other rules questions which actually have a clear answer from the rule book are asked 9 - 12 times each...

That being said, it should be stated this is a valid errata issue, because according to the written rules and card texts I am quite sure that Mud and Fog may Desert and be Redeployed, that is *probably* not an intended activity and produces a real fracture in the rules if Mud leaves a flag with 4 units deployed on either side.

I will say that I intend to play with the environments being out of bounds to these two guile effects, but acknowledge this is not substantiated by the written rules.

Can I complain one more time about the 47 threads I had to read about having an 8 card hand after playing scout in order to find this one...
 
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Diego Desmond
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I add an issue for a tactic card: The Scout.
When i draw the three cards, am I allowed to look on every single card, or have i first choose where to draw from the threes, and then see what i have draw?
 
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Patrick Barry
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Sir Viss wrote:
First, I am astonished that this question only comes up once in the forum when each of 6 other rules questions which actually have a clear answer from the rule book are asked 9 - 12 times each...

That being said, it should be stated this is a valid errata issue, because according to the written rules and card texts I am quite sure that Mud and Fog may Desert and be Redeployed, that is *probably* not an intended activity and produces a real fracture in the rules if Mud leaves a flag with 4 units deployed on either side.

I will say that I intend to play with the environments being out of bounds to these two guile effects, but acknowledge this is not substantiated by the written rules.

Can I complain one more time about the 47 threads I had to read about having an 8 card hand after playing scout in order to find this one...


It seems the rules say: "Redeploy: The player chooses any one Troop or Tactics card from his side next to an unclaimed Flag, and places it face up into another of his available slots, or discards it face up on his side next to the Tactics card deck. Do not cover any other discard." Since Mud or Fog are not properly played into a slot, but "face up on the player's near side of an unclaimed Flag." the intent seems to me to be definitive, if not obvious, that Mud and Deploy are immune to Redeploy.

Now, "Deserter: The player may choose any one Troop or Tactics card from the opponent's side next to an unclaimed Flag, and discards it face up on the opponent's side next to the Tactics card deck. Do not cover any other discard." Since this says side and not slot, which matches the verbiage from Mud and Fog, it would be technically correct that it would be effective, but only in the case where the person playing Deserter and previously played Mud or Fog on his opponent and later on thought better of it!

If it interests anybody, the newest edition of Schotten Totten, indicates that the equivalent cards (Blind-Man's Bluff and Mud Fight) are played on the stone and not on either side, whereas (Strategist and Banshee) only affect cards on your side. I think we can extrapolate the same intent for Battle Line.
 
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Patrick Barry
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Diegoista wrote:
I add an issue for a tactic card: The Scout.
When i draw the three cards, am I allowed to look on every single card, or have i first choose where to draw from the threes, and then see what i have draw?


If you were playing against me, I would say yes you may, but be quick about it! Being serious, this is a card that can really slow things down if you are not using it to look for a particular card that you need late in the game. Just draw the top 3 cards of the deck you are wishing on, dump your two least favorite cards, and move on...
 
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