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Subject: Your Fellow Players rss

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Alan Clift
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When cards say "Your fellow players..." does that include the player playing the card, or just the opponents? The explanation in the rules of various card's descriptions say "All players...", which would include the person playing the card.

 
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Matt Muller
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Your fellow players is everyone else besides you so it differs slightly from all players which includes you.
 
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Alan Clift
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"Your fellow players is everyone else besides you so it differs slightly from all players which includes you."

But which applies to the card? The text of the card says "Your fellow players...", while the the rule book description for card says "All players...".

Knowing that the rules are translated, creates some doubt. Also there is one card that empties players courts to the provinces. Playing that card the first turn on the first round, caus 4 of the 5 players to lose 7 pieces seems far to powerful. Swings thought that all players would have to follow the instructions.
 
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Jan Milewski
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There is no discrepancy like that in the German version of the game which I happen to own.

And indeed the powerful card you've mentioned reads exactly "Your fellow players". That's why there are some really nasty cards it's worth fighting for and others that aren't nearly as good. =)

One thing to remember is: in the game the players will often have no caballeros in their court - this card doesn't hurt them much since they will be bringing in new caballeros with a low power card before or after you have used your action card.

This card is a real pain in the neck for anybody who tried to save up their caballeros to be able to play a high valued power card - but well - then he'll be most likely able to snatch the card for himself.
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Devon Harmon
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I just got the reprint, and this is as clear as mud in the instructions. Referring to the Action Cards in the 2 stack, page 9, sometimes "your fellow players" means opponents, and sometimes it means all players.

In the sample game instruction, it is clear that the "decay of authority" card only affects opponents.

In the rulebook, the explanation for the cards that say "your fellow players must remove 2 of their caballeros from any region....decide secretly" goes on to say all players must simultaneously select a region with their secret disks.

So sometimes "your fellow players" means opponents, and other times it means everybody. Is there a quick and easy way to know which is meant, short of referring to the book each time a new card is flipped, or taking a pen to the cards?

I'm confused.

The art on the card seems to show a dark caballero when it affects the player of the card. This leads me to believe that the Action Cards in the two stack do not affect the player, since this art does not appear. But, the detailed instructions of the cards explicitly say "all players" in some instances.

What gives? I am just being a lawyer again and unreasonably demanding precision from my game rules? Should I give up on Eurogames and go back to Starfleet Battles?
 
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Devon Harmon
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Devon Harmon wrote:


In the rulebook, the explanation for the cards that say "your fellow players must remove 2 of their caballeros from any region....decide secretly" goes on to say all players must simultaneously select a region with their secret disks.



Maybe "all players" really means "all affected players." This harmonizes the rules for me, at least in my mind.

After all, the rules are very imprecise in other areas, constantly referring to "majority" when they really mean "plurality.

I guess I answered my own question. I think I should quit reading the rules and just try to play this sucker and see what shakes out.
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Russell Jones
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I just got the decennial version and I'm very confused by this also. It would be great if someone with the original rules could spell out precisely which cards apply to ALL players, and when to all opponents.

I agree that going by the graphics on the cards (where a dark cube implies that the active player is also affected, and no dark cube implies he's not) may be the way to go, but I'd like to know for sure...

 
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Daniel Corban
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I have the original rulebook.

"Your fellow players" always means your opponents. It never includes you.

The only card in the "2 stack" that applies to the active player is "send 1 Caballero from any regions from each player back to the provinces". The card and the rules are very clear. The card has the black caballero icon and the rules specifically say "including one of your own".

*edit*
After doing research for another thread, I discovered that this card actually doesn't have a black caballero icon. However, there is a distinctive dark brown icon. If you look through the entire action deck, you will see that no other card shows this dark brown caballero color (only blue, white, black, red). I believe it is a slight color misprint. The dark brown is supposed to be black.
*/edit*

Both of the Decay of Authority cards are also crystal clear. The card text says "fellow players" and there is no black caballero icon. The rulebook does not say "all players" in either case. Neither of these cards affect the active player. In my opinion, these cards are much stronger later in the game rather than early. Early, you likely still have low power cards to refill your court. Later, you may have already played them.

To sum it up: there is no need for a master list of the action cards. The iconography on the cards is very clear and accurate. If you don't see a black (or dark brown) caballero icon, it doesn't affect the active player.


 
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eryn roston
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so the cards from "2-stack" that say "Your Fellow Players must send all their own Caballeros from one region back to the provinces. Each player decides which refion. Decide" DO effect the active player because there are brown boxes in the picture?
 
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eryn roston
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Also what about "the king returns!" all those boxes are brownish in color.
 
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Daniel Corban
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Sorry, my "dark brown" statement was specifically in reference to the one card I mentioned. There are two other cards that have dark brown icons on them, but they say "fellow players" and affect only your opponents (this is also clarified in the rulebook).

The King Returns is also only your "fellow players".
 
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eryn roston
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Quote:
The King Returns is also only your "fellow players".


I don't mean to be a pill here, but what makes you say this? In my rule book the detailed description of the card reads: "Each player, starting with the player to the left of the player who played the special action and continuing clockwise around the table, must send 3 of his own Caballeros back to the provinces. The players may not take Caballeros from the King's region or the Castillo"

It's not that I can't see it your way (based on the description as it is on the card), but I can just as easily see this card effecting all players based on the rule-book description.

-E

update: nevermind. I just read the file with rules clarifications (supposedly approved by Kramer) in that file it does say that this card only effects other players.
 
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